Studied by 3 people
Greek Men's roles in the Ancient world
- Act as a citizen by taking part in political affairs.
- Be in good shape and act as a soldier when required/ Military duties were particularly important in
Greek Women's role in the ancient world
To act just like Penelope (Odyssey)
Be modest and not be seen in public. Women did not have equal rights to men. Keep in mind that Athens was particularly bad on this angle and Sparta was more egalitarian.
- Stay in the house and manage household duties.
Roman Men's roles in the ancient world
- Be manly and possess virtus (courage). Men could most often acquire virtus by a military career. But they would
also be expected to advance up the cursus honorum (political office career) and this could be another way of
achieving virtus.
- It is important to keep in mind that Roman men were allowed to have sexual relations with low-class women and
slave girls. They could also have same-sex relationship with slave boys. However, same-sex relations between men
were not nearly as socially accepted in Rome as in Greece.
Roman Women's role in the ancient world
Women could own property and inherit which was unlike Greece. However, they were still expected to be modest
and possess virtues such as pudicitia (modesty). They were also not allowed to vote and hold public office.
- Stay in the house and manage household duties.
Sappho- Why do we not know all context about her poems/ why could they be unreliable
They are fragmentary/ not in full/ only part remains
What is the only full poem of Sappho
Aphrodite- Godess of the golden throne
How Sappho wrote her poems
= Sappho wrote her poems in short sections called stanzas.
- Lyric poetry was sung in a chorus group. Hence 'lyrical'. It was designed to be a performance. Think about
how far her poetry is from Sappho's perspective or a speaker's.
- Sappho's lyric poetry was influence by Homer. Think about the use of Homeric epithets, the grand
mythology of her poetry, and her relationship with Aphrodite especially.
Sappho's Purpose of writing
Sappho was a famous poet from Lesbos and was writing initially for a Lesbian audience. However, she
found much more success in Ancient Greece more widely after her death.
It is important to keep in mind that Sappho was part of a chorus of female poets and not all of her poems
are necessarily written from her perspective. Some poems may have unknown speakers. Although do note
that Sappho does explicitly name herself as speaker in at least some poems (Aphrodite, goddess of the
embroidered throne (Loeb 1) and Honestly, I want to die (Loeb 94).
When reading Sappho, it is really important to keep in mind her three main motives in writing:
- Promoting the female experience of life.
- Promoting same-sex relationships between women.
- Promoting the luxurious lifestyle of Lesbos.
It can be argued that Sappho knows these motives are considered tropes of Lesbos and is
intentionally playing upon these cliches.
Sappho and Aphrodite
Sappho claims to have a close personal friendship with Aphrodite and describes her as helping her with love related affairs.
She does this in Godess of the golden throne, come to me (leave Crete behind)
Because of this, Aphrodite could also be seen as being presented as dangerous
Sappho generally with the goddesses
Sappho only identifies with the female goddesses ( Aphrodite and Hera (Come, Queen Hera), this is likely to promote the female experience
Sappho on Desire (Positively)
As a general rule of thumb, you can say that Sappho presents desire as positive and something to be sought for its own sake.
Sappho presents desire as rooted in conventional attractiveness and the pursuit of sexual pleasure. For Sappho, conventional attractiveness is often expressed in luxury. For example, Sappho refers to a woman wearing "embroidered sandals" with "beautiful Lydian workmanship" Embroidered sandals (Loeb 39). She also presents
wearing perfume and wearing garlands in hair as particularly erotic Honestly, I want to die (Loeb 94).
Even Sappho's love for her daughter is expressed in terms of luxury. She says her daughter "resembles the sight of golden flowers". She also says "I love her more than all of Lydia" and so Sappho says her daughter is even more valuable than the extremely expensive Lydia (I have a beautiful daughter (Loeb 132)
Luxury can also appear as high class manners. Sappho is bewitched by a woman because she has a "sweet voice" and "charming laughter" (He is as blessed as a god (Loeb 31).
The lack of luxury is presented as conventionally unattractive, as can be seen if Sappho's condemnation of her rival Andromeda as an ignorant and uncultured farm girl (What farm girl (Loeb 57).
Sappho, very unusually for the Ancient Greek world, presents desire as something which is positive and should be
Sappho on Desire (Negatively)
However, Sappho also presents desire as potentially dangerous and something which should be
sought carefully.
Note that Sappho present both love and desire as potentially physically painful and something
which needs to be carefully regulated .
Desire and Love in Sappho can also lead to depression
Sappho on Sex
Sappho is careful to make her references to sex veiled in metaphor rather than delivered through explicit
language. Nowhere near as explicit as Ovid (who was himself nevertheless trying to be poetic).
Sappho says "when we were young" that she and her ex-partner did "many, beautiful things" (you will
remember (Loeb 24a). Sappho is deliberately vague about what these things were to make the
reader's imagination run wild.
Sappho can be direct when presenting eroticism. She sings about placing wreaths over a woman's
hair, placing garlands over her neck, and perfuming her body. The image of going down from head
to body is intentionally titillating. She even claims she and this woman "satisfied your desire" in
every space and including in a "sacred space" and "grove"! (Honestly, I want to die (Loeb 94).
Some interpret the "The beautiful dew falls, the roses and the tender chervil and the flowering
melilot bloom" as an explicit sexual simile (Often she
turned her thoughts here (Loeb 96)
Sappho on Love (positively)
Sappho presents love as separate from desire. Love is not rooted in conventional attractiveness
and an unattractive beloved can become beautiful. In sum, love in Sappho is a close romantic
relationship which can make anyone beloved, regardless of conventional attractiveness.
Note Sappho saying that Atthis is "clumsy" and lacking grace but nevertheless still fondly
remembers her love for this woman (I used to love you, Atthis (Loeb 49). Sappho also says that
the most beautiful person in the world is the one whom you love (The most beautiful sight in the
whole world (Loeb 16). Sappho says that "a good man will become handsome" (A handsome
man is only good to look at (Loeb 50).
Sappho often presents these romantic relationships as fleeting and often changing in terms of
who is and is not beloved. A key example is Atthis, who Sappho claims she once loved (I used to
love you, Atthis (Loeb 49). But later Sappho is fawning over Atthis and is upset that Atthis is
"repulsed" by her and runs away to her rival Andromeda (Atthis, the thought of me (Loeb 131).
This is rooted in the fact that lesbian relationships were when women were younger, before they
were married, and were not intended to be long lasting. Sappho is looking back at her younger life.
Sappho on Love (Negatively)
Sappho expresses love as physically painful and something which needs to be
experienced carefully. She writes very famously with vivid language about the physical
pain of love (He is as blessed as a god (Loeb 31). Sappho similarly describes love as
shaking her soul "like a wind buffeting oak tree" (Love shook my soul (Loeb 47) and as
"loosening the limbs" (Love which loosens the limbs (Loeb 130).
The above point is particularly important for Sappho because she is particularly
celebrated for her vivid descriptions on the power of intense love
Sappho's poetry is by its very nature reflective upon past relationships since she is now married
and does not have the relationships with women which she once had. Her uncertain character is
evident in the tone of her poems (I do not know what I am going to do (Loeb 51). She is also
clearly melancholic about these past relationships.
Sappho can be very vindicative to those who do not love her. She asks Aphrodite to force a
woman to love her against her will (Aphrodite, goddess of the embroidered throne (Loeb 1).
She also claims that one of her ex lovers will never be loved by anyone again and will be forgotten
forever (When you die (Loeb 55).
Sappho's view of love can often manifest in depression. She claims that she wants to die and go
to Hades, presumably because Gongyla has rejected her (Gongyla (Loeb 95). Sappho also says
that she does not want the "honey" of love because she cannot handle the sting of the "bee" of
love (Neither the honey (Loeb 146). Sappho rather pathetically says that she sleeps alone at
night because even the moon and stars desert her Gone are the moon and the Pleiades. (Loeb
168b)
Sappho
Men and Women (Positive Depictions)
Sappho is mos
Sappho on men (dangerous)
Sappho largely presents men as frightening and destructive.
Do remember these poems are very intense so take this as a content warning for the slide.
Sappho claims that men are destructive and ruin women in 'just like the sweet apple' and 'just
like the hyacinth'. Sappho often associates apples and flowers with sexual imagery and the
presentation of men stamping on these items and destroying them is mostly likely a reference to
men's sexual violence. This was unfortunately very common in Ancient Greece and Rome.
Sappho claims that virginity is taken away from women by men and this is something to be sad
about in 'Virginity'.
Sappho claims that marriage is lucky for the bridegroom but not the bride ('Lucky Bridegroom').
She similarly bemoans a young girl getting married and claims mothers don't want their
daughters to leave them in 'Hesperus'.
Sappho Background
Sappho is from Lesbos which was geographically near Anatolia (modern day Turkey) and so was often associated with barbarism in Ancient Greece. Sappho was Greek but was seen as quasi-barbaric and a
bit scandalous.
It is clear that while Sappho is authentic in her writings that she knows about Lesbian stereotypes and
fashions her poetry around these tropes. She was so influential among later writers that Sappho's presentation of herself began to shape Greek views of Lesbos.
Sappho promotes luxury (which was a vice in Greek thought) as something good and which should be valued. This is because of her context as a Lesbian. She often promotes her wealth and her connections to the extremely wealthy Lydia and its capital city of Sardis.
Sappho presents herself as more romantically interested in women more than men (Sapphic love).
The idea of women having numerous affairs in Lesbos was notorious in Ancient Greece.
Sappho mostly writes about love but was from the aristocratic elite from Lesbos and was friends (and
Plato on Desire (Positive depictions)
Plato is largely against desire, but believes that impeding it is bad.
He criticises Alcibiades for not being able to control it in the Symposium but does NOT criticise Pausanias and Agathon as they are in a long term relationship and have control of their desire.
Plato's chariot of the soul
Plato believed that every soul had a chariot with a white horse of goodness and a dark horse of desire. Therefor it is wrong to starve the horse of desire; you just must control it
Plato Types of Love
Uranian Love- Heavenly love, controlled desire, long term and deemed as good by Plato. Share ideas, pregnancy of the mind
Pandamian love- common love, vulgar and based purely on sexual attraction.
Plato on gays (good)
In his middle works, Plato expresses a positive attitude.
Claims that men are more likely to experience Uranian love when in a homosexual relationship as men are more intelligent.
Plato on gays (bad)
In his later works (especially laws) Plato voices an open disregard towards homoerotic/homosexual relationships
Plato views on women
Traditional (such as being attracted to shiny objects and that they are unintelligent, like children)
Plato views on women (controversial)
•Openly admired Sappho as the "10th Muse"
•Presents Diotima as a successful philosopher in the Symposium
•In the republic states that intelligent women should be guardians of the state.
Ovid Context
•Ars amatoria is a DIDACTIC work which means that it has a meaning/ lesson within
•Ovid was regarded as one of the greatest poets of his time, even when alive
Ovid on Love and War
Ovid describes love as a type of warfare between men and women, and claims that Ars Amatoria is 'the secret weapon of love'
Ovid giving women advice (false)
It can be said that Ars Amatoria is actually a parody and is not genuine advice to women. It can be argued that it is aimed at men to make fun of women ( ROY GIBSON )
Ovid giving women advice (TRUE)
It can be argued that there is too much detail for Ars Amatoria not to be genuine, and can also be said that Ovid had a much more contempary view of women's role in society which makes it more likely ( SHARON JAMES )
Ovid excusing himself
Near the start of Ars Amatoria, Ovid gives a reason why he is writing 'for women' in that Venus ordered him to do so. This would make it okay to his male audience ( including emperor Augustus Caesar)
Ovid's Humour
Ovid frequently contradicts himself throughout Ars Amatoria which can be seen as a type of comedy
It can also be said that he uses an over the top persona (being very explicit for the time and using hyperbole/over exaggeration to create a humourous feel)
Ovid on Desire
Ovid is clearly okay with desire as the ending of the poetry collection is about having sex. There is no indication that the two people are in a relationship, it is purely about having sex with eachother. (And so to bed)
Ovid on love (as good)
Romantic love is not mentioned much in the poems so it is hard to argue for it, however sexual love is presented as very positive and Ovid does tell women to model themselves off of mythological women such as Penelope who display romantic love and loyalty excellently
Ovid on love (as bad)
Ovid sometimes describes love as a tool to use against men. He tells women to lie about loving men just to have sex with them which presents it as dangerous. an example of this is in 'take care with letters' where he says to use love letters to draw men in.
Seneca's Stoicism
The Stoic view that individuals should reach virtus/arete (goodness) by moderating desires was
widely respected in Rome. The Stoic view that individuals should live a life of apatheia (a lack of passion) was also widely respected.
Seneca and Paulina
Senecas wife was seen as respectable and 'well trained' as she tried to kill herself when seneca was forced to commit suicide by Nero
What is ' Sapiens'?
It means 'the wise man' and is the goal of all stoics
Seneca view on friendship
Thought that they were not necessary but that by having friends you could gain more knowledge and have an easier path to becoming Sapiens
Seneca views on marriage
Seneca's conventional views on the importance of marriage were also much more of a good fit with traditional Roman thought
than earlier Greek Stoic philosophers who did not support marriage. Seneca even believed marriage could cause the sapiens to take care of themselves more for concern for their wife and so help on the
path to virtus. In this sense, Seneca was very appealing to traditional Roman thought
Seneca on Love
Seneca views love as a 'maddened friendship' - making it in its purest form a good thing.
However love can be dangerous as it can lead to desire and madness
You must be careful not to use relationships to your own advantage
Seneca's 'ultimate vice'
PLEASURE - as said in letters
says it festers.
How to resist pleasure ?
A key way in which Seneca believes one can resist desire is through living accordance to God.
Seneca claims in his Moral Letters that the sapiens should live such a pure life in accordance to
virtus that it is as if the individual is living according to the nature of God.
On the other hand, Seneca claims that the bad man is one who is divorced from God. As all
goodness comes from God, the bad man has no connection with God.
Seneca accepting desire
Seneca claims in Consolation to Helvia that God has bestowed sex on the human race for the
purpose of procreation. Therefore, while Seneca is very critical of indulging in sexual desire, sex
for the purposes of procreation is not only acceptable but divinely ordained.
Seneca also claims in On the Tranquilly of Mind that those who completely abstain from sex and
desire are living a dangerous life where appetite is starved. While one should only give in to
desire for the purposes of procreation, one must give into desire at certain points in their life to
avoid madness.
Seneca on gays
Seneca is easily the author in Love and Relationships who is the most critical of homoerotic
relationships. He very famously claims in Moral Letters that same-sex relationships are unnatural
and should not be indulged. They do not fulfil the need for procreation and so are wrong.
Roman society was not as supportive of same-sex relationships as Ancient Greece. In particular,
Roman society did not approve of pederasty. In this respect, Seneca's views of same-sex
relationships would not be as controversial to a Roman as a Greek.
However, homoerotic relationships were legal and permissible in Rome so long as the elite was
the active partner and was with lower class passive partners. Seneca's criticism of same-sex
relationships from an angle of desire would not necessarily have won favour with the average
Roman. Most Romans believed in moderation and chastity but nevertheless still thought desire
was an important part of life, so long as it was regulated to the active/passive social roles
