Notable Verses I Struggle With and/or which prompt Future Discussion and/or which I do not understand and/or which can be "Food for Thought" and/or which connect to other Modes of Thought (Problematic, Contradictory, "Outdated", etc. and their Explanations / Reconciliations)

Light Green Highlights; Includes All Books; Ordered Custom from Most Troubling to Least Troubling

Joshua 2:18 - “When we come back to this land, you must tie in your window this red rope you are using to help us escape. You must bring your father, your mother, your brothers, and all your family into your house with you”

Is the “crimson cord” or “red rope” a symbolic parallel of the blood on the doorposts of the Passover story? Are the soldiers “passing over” Rahab’s house?

Joshua 5:13-15 - “When Joshua was near Jericho, he looked up and saw a man standing in front of him. The man had a sword in his hand. Joshua went to the man and asked, ‘Are you a friend to our people or are you one of our enemies?’ The man answered, ‘I am not an enemy. I am the commander of God’s army. I have just now come to you.” Then Joshua bowed his face to the ground to show respect and said, ‘I am your servant. Does my master have a command for me?’ The commander of God’s army answered, ‘Take off your sandals. The place where you are standing is holy.’ So Joshua obeyed him”

Who is this man and what is the significance of this passage? It seems so out of place with the rest of the chapter. What transpired here?

Joshua 6:21 - “The [Israelites] destroyed everything in [Jericho]. They destroyed everything that was living there. They killed the young and old men, the young and old women, and the cattle, sheep, and donkeys”

RSV: “Then they utterly destroyed all in the city, both men and women, young and old, oxen, sheep, and asses, with the edge of the sword”

Why does God command genocide? Specifically, why does he command the killing of children and animals, or innocent life? How is this just? How can we reconcile this?

Joshua 8:22, 25-26, 28 - “Then the men who were hiding came out of the city to help with the fight. The army of Israel was on both sides of the men of Ai - the men of Ai were trapped. Israel defeated them. They fought until none of the men from Ai were left alive - none of the enemy escaped […] All the people of Ai died that day; there were 12,000 men and women. Joshua had held his spear toward Ai as a sign to his people to destroy the city. And he did not stop until all the people of Ai were destroyed. […] Then Joshua burned the city of AI. That city became an empty pile of rocks. It is still like that today”

RSV: “And the others came forth from the city and smote them, until there was left none that survived or escaped. […] And all who fell that day, both men and women, were twelve thousand, all the people of Ai. For Joshua did not draw back his hand, with which he stretched out the javelin, until he had utterly destroyed all the inhabitants of Ai […] so Joshua burned Ai, and made it for ever a heap of ruins, as it is to this day”

Why does God command genocide? Specifically, why does he command the killing of children and animals, or innocent life? How is this just? How can we reconcile this?

It is important to acknowledge that this verse goes against the idea that these were exaggerations since the word is very literal in that 12,000 were killed

Joshua 10:28 - “That day Joshua defeated Makkedah. He killed the king and the people in that city. No one was left alive. Joshua did the same thing to the king of Makkedah that he had done to the king of Jericho”

RSV: “And Joshua took Makkedah on that day, and smote it and its king with the edge of the sword; he utterly destroyed every person in it, he left none remaining; and he did to the king of Makkedah as he had done to the king of Jericho”

Why does God command genocide? Specifically, why does he command the killing of children and animals, or innocent life? How is this just? How can we reconcile this?

Joshua 10:30 - “God allowed the Israelites to defeat [Libnah] and its king. They killed everyone in the city. No one was left alive. And they did the same thing to that king as they had done to the king of Jericho”

RSV: “and God gave [Libnah] also and its king into the hand of Israel; and he smote it with the edge of the sword, and every person in it; he left none remaining in it; and he did to its king as he had done to the king of Jericho”

Why does God command genocide? Specifically, why does he command the killing of children and animals, or innocent life? How is this just? How can we reconcile this?

Joshua 10:32 - “God allowed [Israel] to defeat the city of Lachish. They defeated it on the second day. The Israelites killed everyone in the city, just as they had done in Libnah”

RSV: “and God gave Lachish into the hand of Israel, and he took it on the second day, and smote it with the edge of the sword, and every person in it, as he had done to Libnah”

Why does God command genocide? Specifically, why does he command the killing of children and animals, or innocent life? How is this just? How can we reconcile this?

Joshua 10:33 - “King Horam of Gezer came to help Lachish, but Joshua also defeated him and his army. No one was left alive”

RSV: “Then Horam king of Gezer came up to help Lachish; and Joshua smote him and his people, until he left none remaining”

Why does God command genocide? Specifically, why does he command the killing of children and animals, or innocent life? How is this just? How can we reconcile this?

Joshua 10:35 - “That day [Israel] captured [Eglon] and killed everyone in the city. This was the same thing they had done to Lachish”

RSV: “And [Israel] took [Eglon] on that day, and smote it with the edge of the sword; and every person in it he utterly destroyed that day, as he had done to Lachish”

Why does God command genocide? Specifically, why does he command the killing of children and animals, or innocent life? How is this just? How can we reconcile this?

Joshua 10:37 - “They captured [Hebron] and the small towns near [it]. The Israelites killed everyone in the city, just as they did to Eglon. No one was left alive there. They destroy the city and killed all the people in it as an offering to God”

RSV: “And [Israel] took [Hebron], and smote it with the edge of the sword, and its king and its towns, and every person in it; he left none remaining, as he had done to Eglon, and utterly destroyed it with every person in it”

Why does God command genocide? Specifically, why does he command the killing of children and animals, or innocent life? How is this just? How can we reconcile this?

Joshua 10:39-40: “They captured [Debir], its king, and all the towns near [it]. They killed everyone in the city, just as they had done to Libnah and its king. No one was left alive there. They destroyed the city and killed all the people in it as an offering to God. So Joshua defeated all the kings of the cities of the hill country, the Negev, the western foothills, and the eastern foothills. God, the God of Israel, had told Joshua to kill all the people, so Joshua did not leave anyone alive in those places”

RSV: “And [Joshua] took [Debir] with its king and all its towns; and they smote them with the edge of the sword, and utterly destroyed every person it; he left none remaining; as he had done to Hebron and to Libnah and its king, so he did to Debir and to its king. So Joshua defeated the whole land, the hill country and the Negev and the lowland and the slopes, and all their kings; he left none remaining, but utterly destroyed all that breathed, as God, the God of Israel, commanded”

Why does God command genocide? Specifically, why does he command the killing of children and animals, or innocent life? How is this just? How can we reconcile this?

Joshua 7:24-25: “Then Joshua and all the people led Achan son of Zerah to the Valley of Achor. They also took the silver, the coat, the gold, Achan’s sons and daughters, his cattle, his donkeys, his sheep, his tent, and everything he owned. They took all these things to the Valley of Achor with Achan. Then Joshua said, ‘You caused much trouble for us, but now God will bring trouble to you.’ Then all the people threw stones at Achan and his family until they died. Then the people burned them and everything he owned”

RSV: “And Joshua and all Israel with him took Achan the son of Zerah, and the silver and the mantle and the bar of gold, and his sons and daughters, and his oxen and asses and sheep, and his tent, and all that he had; and they brought them up to the Valley of Achor. And Joshua said, ‘Why did you bring trouble on us? God brings trouble on you today.’ And all Israel stoned him with stones; they burned them with fire, and stoned them with stones”

So, here, God is punishing Achan by also punishing his children, yet this contradicts the law of Moses and the reference made in 2 Kings 13!

Why does God collectively punish Achan’s family, killing not just him but his sons and daughters as well? Isn’t this anti-Torah? Why is Achan’s punishment so harsh compared to other biblical figures? Why does God collectively punish at all? What is moral about collective punishment, or the “sins of the father” as it is often put?

Judges 6:18 - “Please wait here. Don’t go away until I come back to you. Let me bring my offering and set it down in front of you. And God said, ‘I will wait until you come back’”

Does the rendering of this verse imply that God is not everywhere? It reads as if God is localized to that one spot…

Judges 8:16 - “And he took the elders of the city and he took thorns of the wilderness and briers and with them taught the men of Succoth. And he broken down the tower of Penuel, and slew the men of the city”

Was this really necessary? They did not make fun of God, they just refused to help His people…

Judges 8:19-20 - “And he said, ‘They were my brothers, the sons of my mother, as God lives, if you had saved them alive, I would not slay you.’ And he said to Jether his first-born, ‘Rise, and slay them.’ But the youth did not draw his sword; for he was afraid, because he was still a youth”

Why is brothers defined as sons of my mother? What makes this act anything other than revenge and why does God not condemn it? Why does Gideon make his son Jether do it? Why does the bible specify that Jether does not because he is still young? Is Gideon really that nearsighted?

Judges 9:18 - “and you have risen up against my father’s house this day, and have slain his sons, seventy men on one stone, and have made Abimelech, the son of his maidservant, king over the citizens of Shechem, because he is your kinsman” (RSV)

How is it possible that he killed 70 men all at the same time?

Judges 9:24 - “and Jotham ran away and fled, and went to Beer and dwelt there, for fear of Abimelech his brother”

Why did he flee if he had God on his side?

Judges 11:29-33 - “Then the Spirit of God came on Jephthah, and he passed through the area of Gilead and Manasseh. He went through the city of Mizpah in Gilead on his way to the land of the Ammonites. Jephthah made a promise to God. He said, ‘If You will let me defeat the Ammonites, I will give You the first thing that comes out of my house when I come back from the victory. I will give it You as a burnt offering.’ Then Jephthah went to the land of the Ammonites. He fought the Ammonites, and God helped him defeat them.”

Why would the spirit of God coming onto Jephthah permit him to make such a ghastly error in judgement and make a promise to God he had no rhyme or reason making? Why would God allow him to defeat Ammon knowing the promise he made was foolish? And, how was Jephthah not able to recognize the folly in his promise? What could possibly come out of his house other than a human being? Perhaps he had a pet or some live animal in his home?

Judges 11:36-38 - “Then his daughter said to Jephthah, ‘Father, you have made a promise to God, so keep your promise. Do what you said you would do. After all, God did help you defeat your enemies, the Ammonites.’ Then Jehphtah’s daughter said to her father, ‘But do this one thing for me first. Let me be alone for two months. Let me go to the mountains. I wil not marry and have children, so let me and my friends go and cry together”

What is going on here? She is okay with this? They do not know God… why would he need to make and follow through with this stupid promise? God never required him to do this!

Perhaps this also shows that sadness marks defeat, what Dad was saying about sadness being death, or being torn apart from God completely

Judges 14:19 - “Samson was very angry. The Spirit of God came on Samson with great power. He went down to the city of Ashkelon and killed 30 Philistine men. He took all the clothes and property from the dead bodies and gave them to the men who had answered his riddle. Then he went to his father’s house”

Again, why is the Spirit of God coming upon people in order that they do evil things, such as break promises and kill people?

Judges 15:7 - “Then Samson said to the Philistines, ‘You did this bad thing to me, so now I will do bad things to you. Then I will be finished with you!”

Why does God not condemn his vengeful attitude? Why is he still God’s “special one” despite his blatantly evil and condemnable behaviors?

Judges 16:20 - “Then Delilah called out to him, 'Samson, the Philistine men are going to capture you!’ He woke up and thought, ‘I will escape as I did before and free myself.’ But Samson did not know that God had left him”

How did he NOT know God had left him?

Judges 16:28 - “The people living in Laish did not have anyone to rescue them. They lived too far from the city of Sidon for the people there to help. And the people of Laish did not have any agreements with the people of Aram - so they did not help them. The city of Laish was in a valley, which belonged to the town of Beth Rehob. The people from Dan built a new city in that place, and it became their home”

These verses demonstrate that whoever wrote the bible is aware that God is not always there to rescue everyone even if they are doing nothing wrong (are peaceful)

Some might argue why God did not stand up for the people of Laish at the hands of his own people, but the book is written in a way where it shows evil Israel became…

Judges 21:8-12 - “Then the Israelites asked, ‘Which one of the tribes of Israel did not come here to Mizpah? We have come together before God. Surely one family was not here!’ Then they found that no one from the city of Jabesh Gilead had met together with the other Israelites. The Israelites counted everyone to see who was there and who was not. They found that no one from Jabesh Gilead was there. So the Israelites sent 12,000 soldiers to the city of Jabesh Gilead. They told the soldiers, ‘Go to Jabesh Gilead, and use your swords to kill everyone who lives there, even the women and children. You must do this! You must kill every man in Jabesh Gilead and every woman who has had sexual relations with a man. But do not kill any woman who had never had sex with a man.’ So the soldiers did these things. The 12,000 soldiers found 400 young women in the city of Jabesh Gilead who had never had sex with a man. They brought these women to the camp at Shiloh in the land of Canaan”

Why are the Israelites killing the women and children as well? Also, didn’t it say in the previous chapter that “even Jabesh Gilead” was there for the meeting? Why are they accusing them of not being there? And why are they choosing and forcing them to be the wives of the Benjaminites?

1 Samuel 2:5 - “People who had plenty of food in the past must now work to get food. But those who were hungry in the past now grow fat on food. The woman who was not able to have children now has seven children. But the woman who had many children is sad because her children are gone”

Things change like this? Is this really true?

1 Samuel 2:7 - “God makes some poor and He makes others rich. He humbles some people, and He honors others”

Why does God make people this way?

1 Samuel 2:12 - “Eli’s sons were evil men who did not care about God”

Does this verse imply that it is evil to not care about God?

1 Samuel 2:25 - “If you sin against other people, God might protect you. But who can help you if you sin against God?”

Good question Samuel!

1 Samuel 3:7 - “Samuel did not yet know God because God had not spoken directly to him before”

What does this mean?

1 Samuel 3:18 - “So Samuel told Eli everything. He did not hide anything from him. Eli said, 'He is God. Let Him do whatever He thinks is right”

Atheists might use this one against us…

1 Samuel 5:6 - “God made life hard for the people of Ashdod and their neighbors. He gave them many troubles and caused them to get tumors. He also sent mice to them. The mice ran all over the ships and then onto their land. The people in the city were very afraid”

1 Samuel 5:9 - “But after the Philistines had moved the Ark of the Covenant to Gath, God punished that city. The people became very frightened. God caused many troubles for all the people - young and old. He caused the people in Gath to have tumors”

1 Samuel 5:12 - “Many people died, and those who did not, had tumors. The people of Ekron cried loudly to heaven”

Why would God cause all these things to happen to Philistia, Gath, and Ekron? Does the Ark of the Covenant really do these magical things?

1 Samuel 5:19 - “But no priests were there to lead the celebration when the men of Beth Shemesh saw the Ark of the Covenant. So God killed 70 men from Beth Shemesh. The people of Beth Shemesh cried loudly because of his hard punishment”

Why would God do this?

1 Samuel 8:6-10 - “So the elders asked for a king to lead them. Samuel thought this was a bad idea, so he prayed to God. God told Samuel, ‘Do what the people tell you. They have not rejected you. They have rejected Me. They don’t want Me to be their king. They are doing the same thing they have always done. I took them out of Egypt, but they left Me and served other gods. They are doing the same to you. So listen to the people and do what they say. But give them a warning. Tell the people what a king will do to them. Tell them how a king rules people.’ Those people asked for a king. So Samuel told them everything God said”

Why would God allow this?

1 Samuel 12:21-22 - “Idols are only statues - they can’t help you. So don’t worship them. Idols can’t help you or save you. They are nothing! But God won’t leave His people. No, God was pleased to make you His own people. So for his own good name, He won’t leave you”

Idols are so much more than statues though, especially today… also favoritism by God? And despite Him saying He will leave them, doesn’t He threaten to at some points?

1 Samuel 19:13 - “Michal took the household god, put clothes on it, and put goats’ hair on its head. Then she put the statue in the bed”

What is a household god doing in David’s home?

1 Samuel 19:14 - “Saul sent messengers to take David prisoner. But Michal said, ‘David is sick’”

This shows that we can lie to protect others’ lives and is not condemned by God, right?

1 Samuel 19:23-24 - “So Saul went out to the camps near Ramah. The Spirit of God came on Saul, and he also began prophesying. He prophesied all the way to the camps at Ramah. Saul even took off his clothes. He lay there naked all day and through the night. So even Saul prophesied there in front of Samuel. That is why people say, ‘Is Saul also one of the prophets’?”

What is going on here?

1 Samuel 20:36-40 - “He said to the boy, ‘Run. Go find the arrows I shoot.’ The boy began to run, and Jonathon shot the arrows over his head. The boy ran to the place where the arrows fell, but Jonathan called, ‘The arrows are farther away.’ Then he shouted, ‘Hurry! Go get them. Don’t just stand there.’ The boy picked up the arrows and brought them back to his master. The boy knew nothing about what went on. Only Jonathan and David knew. Jonathan gave his bow and arrows to the boy and told him to go back to town"“

What is going on here?

Job 31:13-15 - “If I refused to be fair to my slaves when they had a complaint against me, then what will I do when I must face God? What will I say when He asks me to explain what I did?”

Job 31:15 “The one who made me in my mother’s womb also made them. God shaped us all inside our mothers”

These two quotes are huge… for one, it is very progressive in that Job is contemplating his role of slaveowner relative to God; and additionally this could be a verse used to cite that personhood begins in the womb and thus an argument against abortion could be made!

Job 1:5 - “The day after each of these parties, Job got up early in the morning, sent for his children, and offered a burnt offering for each of them. He thought, ‘Maybe my children were careless and sinned against God at their party.’ Job always did this so that his children would be forgiven of their sins”

Doesn’t this contradict Torah law? (the sons of the father shall not be punished for the father’s actions)

This must indicate that Job is not studied in Torah or is not an Israelite

Job 4:7 - “Can you think of any innocent person who was ever destroyed? Do you know of any place where good people are punished?

My response to Eliphaz: Yes, and yes, as a matter of fact thinking otherwise on the first one contradicts what is later shown in Ecclesiastes to be the case

Job 4:17-21 (Food for Thought)

“A person cannot be more right than God. People cannot be more pure than their Maker. Look, God cannot even trust His heavenly servants. He sees faults even in His angels. So surely people are worse! They live in houses of clay built on dust. They can be crushed as easily as a moth! From dawn to sunset people are destroyed. They die - gone forever - and no one even notices. The ropes of their tent are pulled up, and they die before gaining wisdom”

Job 8:4 - “If your children sinned against God, he punished them. They paid for their sins”

So here it is consistent with Torah?

Job 8:13-14 - “People who forget God are like that. Those who oppose Him have no hope. They have put their trust in something weak. It is like a spider’s web”

Is this so? Atheists have no hope?

Job 9:16 - “Even if I called and He answered, I cannot believe He would listen to me?”

Why not?

Job 9:22-24 - “So I say, ‘Does it make any difference? God destroys the innocent as well as the guilty.’ Is it God who laughs when a disaster kills innocent people? Is it God who keeps the leaders from seeing when an evil person takes control? If it not God, then who is it?

These all sound like valid questions to me…

Job 12:16 - “God is strong and always wins. He controls those who fool others and those who are fooled”

Might makes right?

Job 12:23 - “God makes nations great, and then He destroys them. He makes nations grow large, and then He scatters their people”

Why?

Job 13:26, 28 - “You have a list of terrible charges against me. Are you making me suffer for the sins I did when I was young?” So, I am becoming weaker and weaker, like a piece of wood rotting away, like a piece of cloth eaten by moths”

I often ask myself this question…

Job 15:34 - “That is because people without God have nothing. Those who take bribes will have their homes destroyed by fire”

Is the second really true? and the first, well, that could be, but it might not be so obvious to everyone…

Job 16:21 - “He speaks to God for me, like someone presenting an argument for a friend”

Biblical proof for prayer towards saints? Catholic custom?

Job 18:5-7 - “Yes, the light of those who are evil will go out. Their fire will stop burning. The light in their houses will become dark. The lamps next to them will go out. Their steps, once strong and fast, become weak. Their own evil plans make them fall”

Will it though?

Job 18:17, 19 - “People on earth will not remember [evil people]. Their names will be forgotten […] They leave behind no children, no descendants. None of their people will be left alive”

Hmm? Pharaoh was remembered, Hitler is gonna be remembered for a long time; both had children, etc.; often evil is remembered even more than good is; the Egyptians still have descendants

Job 21:7-9 - “Why do evil people live long lives? Why do they grow old and successful? They watch their children grow up and live to see their grandchildren. Their homes are safe and free from fear. God does not punish them”

All valid questions and observations…

Job 21:13-15 - “Evil people enjoy success during their lives and then go to the grave without suffering. They say to God, ‘Leave us alone! We don’t care what you want us to do!’ And they say, ‘Who is God All-Powerful? We don’t need to serve Him! It will not help to pray to Him!”

All valid questions and observations…

Job 21:17 - “But how often does God blow out their light? How often does trouble come to them?”

Valid question

Job 21:19 - “But you say, ‘God is saving their punishment for their children. No! Let God punish the evil people themselves so that they will know what they have done!”

Agreed! Punishing their children is anti-Torah…

Job 21:21, 23-26 - “When their life is finished and they are dead, they will not care about the family they leave behind. […] One person died after living a full and successful life, a life completely safe and comfortable, with a body that was well fed and bones that were still strong. But another person dies after a hard life that has made them bitter, never having enjoyed anything good. In the end, both of these people will lie together in the dirt. The worms will cover them both”

All valid observations… I agree with a lot of this, is that bad?

Job 21:30-33 - “Evil people are spared when disaster comes. They survive when God shows His anger. No one criticizes them to their faces for how they lived. No one punishes them for the evil they have done. When they are carried to the grave, they will have someone to watch over the place they are buried. So even the soil in the valley will be pleasant for them, and thousands of people will join their funeral procession”

All valid observations… I agree with a lot of this, is that bad?

Job 22:2-5 - “Does God need our help? Even the wisest of us is not really useful to Him. Does your living right benefit Him? Does God All-Powerful gain anything if you follow Him? Why does God blame and punish you? Is it because you worship Him? No it is because you sin so much. You never stop sinning”

In context, it is false; but out of context, is this true? How can God love us and want us to love Him if we mean nothing to Him?

Job 22:30 - “Even those who are guilty will be forgiven. They will be saved because you did what was right”

Points to the NT?

Job 24:5-12 - “The poor are like wild donkeys that go out to the desert to find food. From morning to night they work to gather food for their children. They have to work in the field, harvesting grain. They work for the rich, gathering grapes in their vineyards. They must sleep all night without clothes. They have no covers to protect them from the cold. They are soaked with rain in the mountains. They stay close to the large rocks for shelter. They have no clothes, so they work naked. They carry piles of grain for others, but they go hungry. They press out olive oil and walk on grapes in the winepress, but they have nothing to drink. In the city you can hear the sad sounds of dying people. Those who are hurt cry out for help, but God does not listen”

Valid observations… so where does Job go wrong here?

Job 25:4 - “How can anyone claim to be right before God? No human being can really be pure”

Argument for Original Sin?

Job 27:8-10 - “What hope do people without God have when it is time to die, when God takes their life away? When they have troubles and cry out for help, God will not listen to them! It will be too late for them to enjoy talking with God All-Powerful. They should have prayed to God all the time”

I struggle with this verse because…

Job 29:16 - “I was like a father to the poor. I helped people I didn’t even know win their case in court”

…

Job 31:7-8 - “If I ever stepped off the right path, if my eyes led my heart to do evil, or if my hands are dirty with sin, then let others eat what I planted. Let my crops be pulled up by the roots”

…

Job 31:9-12 - “If I have desired another woman or waited at my neighbor’s door to sin with his wife, then let my wife serve someone else, and let other men sleep with her. To do such a thing would be shameful, a sin that must be punished. Such sin is like a fire that burns until it destroys everything. It would completely ruin my life’s work”

…

Job 31:24-25 - “I have never trusted in riches. I never said even to pure gold, ‘You are my hope.’ I have been wealthy, but that didn’t make me proud. I earned a lot of money, but that is not what made me happy”

Another “money can’t buy happiness” trope?

Job 31:29-30 - “I have never been happy when my enemies were destroyed. I have never laughed at my enemies when bad things happened to them. I have never let my mouth sin by cursing my enemies and wishing for them to die”

Points to Christ? David cursed his enemies didn’t he? Where does this stand in relation to the rest of the bible? Is this “progressive revelation”: (thou shall love thy enemy?)

Job 32:6-9, 13 - “So here’s what Elihu son of Barakel the Buzite said:

"‘I am only a young man, and you are all older. That is why I was afraid to tell you what I think. I thought to myself, ‘Older people should speak first. They have lived many years, so they have learned many things.’ But it is the spirit in people, the breath from God All-Powerful, that makes them understand. Old men are not the only wise people. They are not the only ones who understand what is right”

“You men cannot say that you have found wisdom. The answer to Job’s arguments must come from God, not people”

Given that Job took place during the time of the Patriarchs, this is EXTREMELY PROGRESSIVE for that day and age, acknowledging that not only the elders can have wisdom, but young people as well; in virtually every other society at the time all the heads of state and wise councilors were old… this secondary quote sort of shows why…

Job 33:14 - “But maybe God does explain what He does but speaks in ways that people don’t understand”

is this a reference to the Holy Spirit moving through people?

Job 33:19 - “Or those who are sick in bed might be suffering punishment from God. The pain that makes their bones ache might be a warning from Him”

Elihu is speaking, but I struggle with this… because… God does not punish us for sinning, does He? We do something bad, and then He brings down lightning on us? Or does God’s punishing work in different ways?

Job 34:20 - “Any of us can die suddenly, in the middle of the night. Anyone can get sick and pass away. Even powerful people die for no reason we can see”

Again, Progressive for including the fact that powerful people are no less human than everyone else; also this is very scary to think about

Job 35:6 - “If you sin, it does not hurt God. Even if your sins are too many too count, that does nothing to God”

How? If we sin, and God is there for us when we sin… then how does it not do anything to Him?

Job 35:7-8 - “And if you are good, that does not help God. He gets nothing from you. Job, the good and bad things you do affect only other people like yourself”

Argument against works for salvation? Again, if we do good, how does that not affect God? Doesn’t He desire for us to love Him? If we do good, we are loving Him, so how does that not affect Him?

Job 25:14 - “So, Job, God will not listen to you when you say that you don’t see Him. You say you are waiting for your chance to meet with Him and prove that you are innocent”

So we just need to have faith?

Job 36:8 - “So if people are punished, if they are tied with chains and ropes, they did something wrong”

Might this biblically justify slavery? or God sanctions it? (God is mentioned in the surrounding verses, but not this verse, but again, Elihu is speaking)

Job 36:15 - “God saves those who suffer by using their suffering. He uses their troubles to speak in a way that makes them listen”

Major biblical instance of the “Greater Good Theodicy?”

Job 37:7 - “God does this to stop everyone’s work and to show the people He made what He can do”

…

Job 37:24 - “That is why people fear and respect Him. He shows no respect for those who think they are wise”

Doesn’t God love wisdom? I’m confused…

Job 38:15 - “Evil people don’t like the daylight. When it shines bright, it keeps them from doing the bad things they do”

Is this always true?

Job 39:16-17 - “An ostrich leaves her little babies. She treats them as if they were not her own. If her babies die, she does not care that all her work was for nothing. That’s because I did not give wisdom to the ostrich. She is foolish, and I made her that way”

Why? Is this scientifically accurate? If so, is that proof God wrote the bible?

Proverbs 2:8-10 - “He [God] makes sure that people are treated fairly. He watches over his loyal followers. If you listen to Him, you will understand what is just and fair and how to do what is right. You will gain wisdom and knowledge will bring you joy.”

It’s not clear whether these are promises or not, does Proverbs make guarantees? This hasn’t been my experience…

Proverbs 2:16 - “Wisdom will save you from that other woman, another man’s wife, who tempts you with sweet words. She married when she was young, but then she left her husband. She forgot the marriage vows she made before God. Going into her house leads to death. She will lead you to the grace. All who enter lose their life and never return”

A couple of things to unpack:

1) Is this male-centric? Why isn’t there a verse in the same department condemning men for doing the same thing?

2) The idea of marrying young and leaving your husband is crazy because that still goes on today, and especially goes on in marginalized communities but is becoming more mainstream

3) That marriage as an institution depends on vows made to God

4) Going into her house leads to death? Permanently? What if she changes her life around?

Proverbs 5:4 - “But in the end, she will bring only bitterness and pain. It will be like bitter poison and a sharp sword”

Again, why the focus just on women committing adultery? Men commit like this too…

Proverbs 5:18-20 - “Be happy with your own wife. Enjoy the woman you married while you were young. She is like a beautiful deer, a lovely fawn. Let her love satisfy you completely. Stay drunk on her love, and don’t go stumbling into the arms of another woman”

Drunk?

Proverbs 8:13 - “To respect God means to hate evil. I hate pride and boasting, evil lives and hurtful words”

But in other places in the Bible, God tells us to love our enemy (our enemy clearing being those that are evil), so which is it?

Proverbs 10:3 - “God takes care of good people and gives them the food they need, but He keeps the wicked from getting what they want”

Does he though? Again, this sounds like a bold claim, but its not always true, is it? Is the writer aware of this?

Proverbs 10:8 - “The wise accept instruction but fools argue and bring trouble on themselves”

Is this supposed to imply that those who argue are all fools? There are no good arguments to be had? What about those who defend the faith (1 Peter 3:15), are they fools?

Proverbs 10:22 - “It is God’s blessing that brings wealth, and no hard work can add to it”

Basis for works not causing salvation? Emphasizes guilt too much… we can be proud of our hard work and it can add to our wealth, after all, its hard work to acquire spiritual wealth by reading and reviewing the Bible, God blesses us in doing so, but I would say I am working hard and it is adding to my wealth

Proverbs 12:7 - “When evil people are destroyed, they are gone and forgotten, but good people are remembered long after they are gone”

Evil people clearly are not forgotten, Ramses II, Hitler, etc.

Proverbs 12:8 - “You praise people for their intelligence, but one respects those who are stupid”

Why not? What does “stupid” mean in this case? Are autistic people stupid? Are gay people stupid? Are non-intelligent people stupid? What is the standard of intelligence?

Proverbs 12:9 - “It is better to appear unimportant and have a servant than to pretend to be important and have no food”

Why is the “and have a servant” part added? Its better to have a servant (slave) than not to have one? How is that the case?

Proverbs 12:10 - “Good people take good care of their animals, but wicked know only how to be cruel”

Insert Alex O’Connor argument here…

Proverbs 12:11 - “Farmers who work their land have plenty of food, but those who waste their time on worthless projects are foolish”

Worthless projects?

Proverbs 12:24 - “Those who work hard will be put in charge of others, but lazy people will have to work like slaves”

used to justify slavery perhaps?

Proverbs 13:7 - “Some people pretend they are rich, but they have nothing. Others pretend they are poor, but they are really rich”

Hmm…

Proverbs 13:11 - “Money gained by cheating others will soon be gone. Money earned through hard work will grow and grow”

Is that so?

Proverbs 13:10 - “Pride causes arguments, but those who listen to others are wise”

Again, arguments are caused by things other than pride

Proverbs 13:13 - “Those who reject a command hurt themselves; those who respect a command will be rewarded”

Umm… Pavlovian at all? So is this why obedience is so highly valued among religious families?