Greek Depth Study - Topic 5 Spartan Mirage

Aristophanes Lysistrata 79-84

Aristophanes Lysistrata 79-84

Awareness of the importance of physical fitness for women in Sparta

Awareness of Spartan singing and dancing.

While this is comedy and could well be playing into Spartan stereotypes conceived by the Athenians there is the argument that for a joke to land this needs to have been a well known idea within Spartan culture

Diodorus 11:50

Talk of war against Athens after losing their naval hegemony

Apparently only through the words of Hetoimaridas do they decide against war on Athens

Thucydides and Plutarch both state that the Spartans were happy to give up naval leadership.

Dating on the succession is too late and we don't have any other practical examples of the Gerousia's legislative function elsewhere

Named member Gerousia, however does give the source some notion of validity

Diodorus 11:63

Account of the earthquake and helot revolt. Apparently 20,000 Lakedaimonians died as a result of it

States that the Helots were always hostile towards the Spartiates and they were waiting for an opportunity to take action against them

How does Diodorus get these figures, not in Thucydides

Compare and contrast with Thucydides 1.101-102

Herodotus 7.104.4

Demaratus' advice to Xerxes, depiction of the Spartans

States that obedience is stressed in the Spartan state and their success in battle is down to their military uniformity.

Buys into the Spartan mirage of them being very strong and fighting together

Fulfils role of wise advisor

Herodotus 7.228

Spartan epitaph at Thermopylae --> 'Go tell the Spartans, you who read: we took their orders, and here lie dead.

Buying into the Sparta mirage

Herodotus 7.234

States that there are 8,000 Spartiates during the Persian wars

States that the rest of soldiers throughout Lacedaemon are good soldiers but not as good

Uses Demaratus' family as a source so therefore explains this wise advisor positive role that he fulfils.

Herodotus 8.3

Stresses that during the Persian wars there was bitterness from the Athenians at not being given naval command. Stresses that Sparta was certainly not a naval power

States that they used Pausanias' tyranny as an excuse for depriving the Lacedaemonians of the command.

Plato Alcibiades 1.222

States that in Lacedaemon there is more gold and silver than in the rest of Greece

Both Plutarch and Xenophon state that they had a lack of material wealth - states that they used Iron Obols (instead of gold or silver)

\n Furthermore they rely on Persian funding throughout the end of the war and Thucydides' Archidamus' speech states that Sparta does not have the funds to purchase a navy.

Plato is writing close to the period, however

Plutarch Lycurgus 9-10

Use of iron as the only form of legal tender

Apparently the Iron coinage was mocked throughout Greece

Contrary to Plato Alcibiades 1.222

Plutarch Lycurgus 10-12

Lycurgus establishes common messes

Apparently no sense of luxury as everyone ate the same meals

Plutarch Lycurgus 29.6

Unchanging nature of the Spartan constitution

Apparently followed the laws set out by Lycurgus for 500 years

What about Theopompous and the introduction of the ephorate --> is this not change?

Plutarch Lycurgus 30.1

Corruption of Sparta

States that Lysander's influence brought about a lust for money and riches which undermined the legislation of Lycurgus and put an end to the success of the Spartan constitution

Plutarch looking for a reason for decline here? seems unreasonable to suggest such a thing…

Plutarch Lycurgus 17

Again this theme of Lysander corrupting the state through the import of money...

Apparently ephors begged that he removed all the silver and gold from the city

Plutarch Moralia 219D

Feeding into the Spartan mirage with the phrase from Brasidas’ mother after he dies → “Brasidas was a good man, but Sparta has many better men than he”

How does Plutarch know this? While it could be true seems like Plutarch could be feeding into the militaristic depiction of Sparta

Plutarch Moralia 241F

In regard to her son leaving woman says to her son (about shield) "Son with it or on it"

Spartans were not carried back home at all, but buried where they fell so very unlikely to be true

Plutarch Moralia

Sayings of Agis

All feeding into the Spartan mirage military importance

Xenophon Lac Pol 7/14

States that he doesn't know whether the constitution remained unchanged.

Also states that Sparta possessed little gold

Challenge to Plutarch's statement that the constitution remained unchanged

Contradicts Plato Alcibiades 1.222 which states that Sparta possessed more gold than the rest of Greece combined. Supports Plutarch Lycurgus 9-10 in this sense saying that they were poor.

Xenophon Constitution of the Spartans 5

Controlled conduct by setting up the system of open public messes in order to cut down on gluttony

Specific level of nutrition designed so nobody starved

Mixed age groups within these public messes so that they would behave better.

Propaganda

Put a stop to the custom of compulsory drinking.

Implication that it is purely a dinner evening meal. Ends by nightfall assuming

Spending time at the gymnasium, not that out of the ordinary

Thucydides 1.6

States that it was the Spartans who first began to dress simply, with the rich leading a life that was as much as possible like the life of ordinary people - restraint from gluttony.

Thucydides 1.68-71

Corinthian speech at the debate at Sparta:

Stresses that they feel Sparta is ignorant and slow to act in terms of their foreign policy. Athens are depicted as innovative and quick, while Sparta are depicted as slow-thinking and sluggish. ‘Good at keeping things as they are; you never originate an idea’

Thucydides 1.87

even after putting it to the Spartan assembly to vote, they then had to vote within the allies highlighting this indecisiveness within Sparta

Thucydides 1.119

Again before deciding upon war, this Spartan indecisiveness shines through in that they called together the allies to discuss war.