Plato on Love and Desire

Background of Plato

> 427-347 BC

> born into a rich Athenian family and was inspired by Socrates.

> After Socrates was killed in 399 BC Plato travelled around the Mediterranean.

> He later returned to Athens and founded the academy - whose most famous student was Aristotle

Background of Socrates

> 469-399 BC

> He was not born into a wealthy family.

> He served in the Athenian army in the Peloponnesian war

> He was famously ugly with bulging eyes, a large forehead and pot-belly.

> He quickly gained a large following of young aristocrats.

> He did not write any of his ideas down.

What is the plot of Plato's Symposium?

It is a dialogue set in Athens in 416 BC. The tragic poet Agathon has just seen his play win first place in the annual festival and he is celebrating with his friends.

Five of those present each offer slightly different views of the god Love. Then Alcibiades, who arrives late and drunk, and Socrates give their speeches.

What does Phaedrus define Love as in the Symposium?

> Love is the path to virtue.

> He considers it to be the oldest of the gods

> Phaedrus is speaking of love in homoerotic relationships - between the erastes and the eromenos

> Each is driven to do well for the state in front of the other due to the love between them.

What does Pausanias define women as in the Symposium 181b?

"the most unintelligent people imaginable"

What does Pausanias define Love as in the Symposium?

> he explains it by being split in two - Pandemian Eros and Uranian Eros

> Pandemian Eros = sexual love, desire, passion - this is the most common form of love. It is the desire for both women and men

> Uranian Eros = something to aspire to. A nobler expression of love which blossoms into friendship and shared virtue and knowledge.

- It is the desire for mental enrichment.

- he draws a distinction between Uranian Eros and pederasty.

What does Eryximachus define Love as in the Symposium? (Quote 187a)

"the science of medicine is completely governed by Love and so are sport and agriculture. And it takes only a moment's thought to make it perfectly clear that the same goes for music too."

What does Eryximachus define Love as in the Symposium?

> He is a doctor

> His ideas of love are scientific

> He explains love as a human manifestation of a universal phenomenon.

> Love, he says, can be seen in the heavens and throughout nature.

> It produces harmony in many different aspects of life.

What does Aristophanes define Love as in the Symposium?

> His is the central speech about Love.

> He tells the story of the origin of Love - explains both homosexuality and heterosexuality and also the deep feelings which love creates.

- also suggests that we long for wholeness and partnership and that there is an important partner for everybody.

- people won't be happy until they find love

What is Aristophanes' story of the origins of Love?

> He tells the story of the origin of Love = all humans were spheres with two sets of arms, legs, faces, sexual organs on the outside (which were used to sew their seeds on the ground)

> There were three sexes - male/female/androgynous

> The humans tried to reach Olympus so they were split in half by Zeus as punishment and cast down in a jumble

> Deprived of their other half they roamed around the land searching for their other half

> Each half of a male or female sphere sought a partner of the same sex, whilst the androgynous spheres sought a partner of the opposite sex.

What does Aristophanes say in Symposium 193c about happiness and love?

"We human beings will never attain happiness unless we find perfect love, unless we each come across the love of our lives and thereby recover our original nature."

What does Aristophanes say in Symposium 193c about the reality of perfect love?

"in our present circumstances the best thing is to get as close to the ideal as possible, and one can do this by finding the person who is his heart's delight."

What does Agathon define Love as in the Symposium?

> He praises the virtues of Love in a poetic style

> Love is young, soft, and sweetly scented, he is also just, moderate, courageous and wise.

> Love is desired because it is beautiful.

What does Socrates / Diotima define Love as in the Symposium?

> He claims that he was taught about Love by Diotima, a priestess who was an 'expert' on love - she plays the role of the questioner and encourages him to see Love in a different way.

> It is neither ugly nor attractive nor divine nor mortal but instead occupies a middle ground.

> It is the child of poverty and resource, who united in a drunken union.

> He is poor, shoeless and homeless but is also a resourceful hunter who lays traps for the beautiful.

> seekers of true love move past the physical desire and strive for what is beautiful.

> it is necessary for immortality, either through procreation or the acquisition of true goodness.

> Diotima identifies Love as not simply physical but as the beauty of goodness and truth.

> Love is therefore the pursuit of truth and ultimately philosophy.

What does Diotima say in Symposium 211d about true beauty?

"What else could make life worth living, my dear Socrates, than seeing true beauty? If you ever do catch sight of it, gold and clothing and good-looking boys and youths will pale into insignificance beside it."

What does Alcibiades define Love as in the Symposium?

> The embodiment of Love is Socrates himself

> In Socrates there is knowledge and virtue - his description of Socrates' bravery in the Athenian army would resonate this love

> He compares his desire for Socrates to being bitten by a snake.

> Socrates refuses to have sex with him - he is able to restrain from sexual desire

What does the painting from the 'Tomb of the Diver' from Pastrum show?

> 480 BC

> shows an erastes and eromenos at a symposium - one with beard and one without - in embrace

What does Plato say about the Physical Symptoms of Love in Symposium?

Through Socrates, he offers the idea that sexual desire urges the soul to grow wings and take flight.

The description is one of sexual arousal - the body getting warm, moist and swell. The body then shudders as if reaching orgasm.

What does Plato say about the Physical Symptoms of Love in Phaedrus? (Quote 251a-b)

"as he looks upon him, a reaction from his shuddering comes over him, with sweat and unwanted heat; for as the effluence of beauty enters him through the eyes, he is warmed; the effluence moistens the germ of the feathers, and as he grows warm, the parts from which feathers grow, which were before hard and choked, and prevented the feathers from sprouting, become soft, and as the nourishment streams upon him, the quills of the feathers swell and begin to grow from the roots over all the form of the soul; for it was once all feathered. Now in this whole process the whole soul throbs and palpitates..."

What does Plato say about the Physical Symptoms of Love in Charmides?

> Socrates describes himself as 'hot and bothered' when he sees under the cloak of Charmides, a young beautiful boy.

> Plato describes him as 'being on fire'

What does Pheadrus say the differences between love and desire are in Plato's 'Symposium'?

> He focusses on the benefits of love in producing a sense of shame and therefore encouraging virtue (particularly militarily)

> He does not mention sexual desire at all.

> Phaedrus' desire would not be sexual but rather aimed at self-improvement.

What does Pausanias say the differences between love and desire are in Plato's 'Symposium'?

> His speech suggests the brutality and ugliness of sexual desire but he says that the motivations between these acts cannot be judged as ugly or beautiful.

> He is an erastes who would enter into a relationship partly for sexual satisfaction from the younger partner.

> He says that sexual desire should turn into mutual love and respect following the initial sexual satisfaction.

> Sexual desire is the beginning of a loving relationship.

> He feels it is morally right to expect gratification in return for the virtue he will develop with his boy.

What does Pausanias say the differences between love and desire are in Plato's 'Symposium'? (Quote 184c)

"there's only one form of voluntary slavery which isn't reprehensible. This is slavery whose aim is goodness."

What does Aristophanes say the differences between love and desire are in Plato's 'Symposium'?

> People try and find fulfilling, loving relationships rather than ones which fulfils sexual desire.

> Sex is important for procreation but also allows people to relax and think more clearly and focussed.

What does Plato say the differences between love and desire are in his 'Laws'?

> There are difficulties in perceiving the differences between friendship, love and desire

> Friendship is affection for someone whom we have something in common.

> Desire is specifically sexual and physical.

> Love is first defined as an 'intense' feeling of friendship - it then divides into two = love that allows desire to be a part of it and love that does not.

What does Plato say the confusing differences between love and desire are in his 'Laws'? (Quote 837a)

"what causes the upmost confusion and obscurity is the fact that this single term embraces two things, and also a third kind compounded of them both."

What does Plato say the different relationships that have love and desire, in his 'Laws'? (Quote 837c-d)

"he that counts bodily desire as but secondary, and puts longing looks in place of the love, with the soul really lusting for soul, regards the bodily satisfaction of the body as an outrage (...) will desire to live always chastely in company with the chaste object of his love"

What does Plato say the how and why desire should be controlled in his 'Republic'?

> He points out the effect which the behaviour of individuals can have on the state.

> It is everybody in society's interest to be moderate and controlled.

> He compares desire for sex with desire for food.

> Immoderate love is comparable to the actions of a tyrant.

> Everyone experiences desire in their dreams but our rational selves control these when we wake.

What does Eryximachus say the how and why desire should be controlled in Plato's 'Symposium'?

> He believes one should restrain from unhealthy love and desire like unhealthy food.

> He makes many comparisons between desire and disease - disease was terrible in the ancient world so the comparison would have stood strong.

What does Plato say the how and why desire should be controlled in his 'Phaedo'?

> the true philosopher (the assumed aim for all men) is described as rising above his desires using reason alone to determine his actions.

> Desires = nails in the soul

What does Socrates say the how and why desire should be controlled in Plato's 'Symposium'?

> He gives examples of incorrect desire such as incest.

What does Alcibiades say about how and why desire can be resisted in Plato's 'Symposium'?

> He describes how Socrates has been able to resist his advances.

> He likens the resistance to endurance on the battle field.

- He has been able to go without rations and has walked barefoot over ice.

- Ironically, this makes him more attractive to Alcibiades.

> Socrates reciprocates Alcibiades' advances by offering nothing more than a discussion and an explanation.

What does Alcibiades say about how and why desire can be resisted in Plato's 'Laws' and 'Republic'?

> Plato talks about sexual desire being rechannelled into more worthwhile aims for the good of the state.

> In Laws he states that if society was more relaxed about men and women spending time together, then the young would need constant supervision to stop them from seeking out their mutual sexual desires.

What does Alcibiades say about how and why desire can be resisted in Plato's 'Symposium'? (Quote 836a-b)

"what remedy can one apply so as to find a way of escape in all such cases from a danger such as this?"

What does Diotima say about how and why desire can be resisted in Plato's 'Symposium'?

> She refers to desire as a creative search for immortality, either through procreation or 'mental pregnancy' which can result in laws, ideas or work of arts.

What does Phaedrus say about how and why desire can be resisted in Plato's 'Symposium'?

> He compares the soul to two horses =

- a black one which represents primal desire

- a white horse which represents moderation

> A charioteer has the job of steering horses who would naturally oppose each other.

What does Plato suggest through all his characters in his 'Symposium' about Homoerotic relationships?

> Pausanius, Eryximachus, Phaedrus and Alcibiades all suggest that same-sex pederastic relationships can be beneficial to the state.

> The connections are a way to pass down knowledge and virtue.

> Diotima suggests that homoerotic bonds produce ideas and virtues and that this bond is stronger than one which produces children.

What does Phaedrus suggest about Homoerotic relationships in Plato's 'Symposium'?

he suggests that friendship should come before a sexual relationship

What does Pausanias say about Homoerotic relationships in Plato's 'Symposium'?

"there's no telling how boys are going to turn out - whether their minds or their bodies will end up good or bad"

What does John Murray say about Homoerotic relationships in Greece?

"to describe what "Greek love" is - the desire of men for men, its institutions and practices - allows us to explore the more contentious issue of what "Greek love" means for us today"

What does Plato say about Homoerotic relationships in his 'Laws'? (Quote 636c)

"contrary to nature when males mates with male or female with female, and that those first guilty of such enormities were impelled by their slavery to pleasure."

IDEAS REGARDING THE NATURE OF 'GOOD' AND 'BAD' CONDUCT WHICH EMERGE

> Love creates good conduct

> Homoerotic relationships encourage both partners to behave in admirable ways in front of each other - which is useful to the state.

> In 'Symposium' Diotima suggests that philosophers can develop their thinking about Love until they are able identify what is truly beautiful in life.

> Reproduction is celebrated by Diotima as the creation of immortality

- Fidelity and the creation of the next generation were both important to the state

HOW PLATO'S CONTEMPORARY CONTEXT INFLUENCED HIS IDEAS

> The events in the Symposium take place in 416 BC but it was written in the 380s.

> In 416 Athens was full of promise - the Sicilian Expedition was leaving with Alcibiades.

> in 404 BC the Athenians lost the Peloponnesian war - Alcibiades was killed in 404 after going to Sparta and then to the Persian court.

> Socrates was killed in 399BC on charges of 'corrupting the youth' of Athens.

> The Symposium and Republic were both written in times of political turmoil in Athens

> A group of philosophers called the 'Sophists' were teaching rich young Athenians for a fee - many considered them to be undermining the state.

- Plato was hostile towards them and perhaps set up the Academy in 387 in response to their growing influence.

What does Reeve say about Plato?

'The erotic world of Plato's dialogue is in part, of course, just that of his society'

HOW THESE IDEAS MIGHT HAVE BEEN RECEIVED BY HIS CONTEMPORARY AUDIENCE?

> Because he seems to draw conflicting conclusions about each, his readers might be able to read what they wanted to.

> All Greeks will have learned some of their moral outlook from Homer.

- Odysseus manages to use his sexuality to ensure his own safety.

- Odysseus and Penelope in the Odyssey represent the archetypal married couple (sex confirms their love), they are equal.

- The Trojan war began because of Helen and Paris - mentioned throughout the Iliad

- Plato's audience would have approached his dialogues with this background

> In the time which Plato was active the Athenians had also lived through political turmoil; authoritarian oligarchy had been followed by a reborn democracy.

> Just as the Athenians will have felt that their way of life had been vindicated by the wars against Persia, this would have been the case again after the P. War