Greek Religion 1.6

Religion and Philosophy

What does historian Thucydides say about worship of the gods during the Plague of Athens?

'Fear of gods or law of man there was none to restrain them. As for the first, they judged it to be just the same whether they worshipped them or not, as they saw all alike perishing'

Who were the Presocratic philosophers?

Philosophers living before Socrates, who was born in 469 BC. They developed theologies in their studies that sometimes deviated from the 'religion of the many'

Why may the Presocratic ridicule/criticism of the gods not be impious?

It was not the gods themselves that were ridiculed but traditional concepts of the gods

Who was Xenophanes?

A 6th century BC Presocratic philosopher from Colophon (Asia Minor). He was the first to suggest one 'cosmic' god.

Why may we have an inaccurate view on the Presocratic philosophers and Socrates?

Theological texts of Greek philosophers before Plato have only survived in fragments.

Why did natural Presocratic philosophers question traditional ideas of the gods?

In the 6th and 5th century BC there was no clear division between science and philosophy (Thales of Miletus was an engineer, geometer and astronomer, as well as the first natural philosopher.) By enquiring about the world from a scientific point of view, scholars such as Thales came to question the traditional ideas of the gods presented in Homer and Hesiod.

Why wasn't this questioning of traditional ideas of the gods necessarily considered impious?

Other suggestions to explain the universe and the world more generally were put forward in accordance with the current system: in a polytheistic world this did not have to be at odds with the acceptance of/belief in in the other gods.

What does scholar S. Tor say about Xenophanes?

'Xenophanes rejects traditional conceptions of divine disclosure as theologically faulty and supplants them with his own, alternative notion of disclosure'

Why may our view of Xenophanes be inaccurate?

Xenophanes' work has come down to us only in fragmented form, often taken from sources hostile towards him

What does Xenophanes' cosmology suggest?

That the origin of everything is to be found in water and earth alone: 'We all came from earth and water'

How did Xenophanes explain natural phenomena?

He undermined supernatural interpretations of natural phenomena. Heavenly phenomena such as the stars were, according to Xenophanes, to be explained by clouds originating in the sea.

What did Xenophanes say about rainbows?

On the appearance of rainbows he said: 'She whom they call Iris (the rainbow, representing messenger goddess of the Olympians), she too is a cloud, purple and red and yellow to view'

What shows that ancient scholars thought Xenophanes criticised Homer and Hesiod for portraying the gods as behaving immorally?

Fragment - 'Compare Xenophanes of Colophon, speaking of Homer and Hesiod: who spoke of manifold wickedness of the Gods, stealing and adultery and deceit. Of his (Xenophanes') works some are in the epic metre, and some are elegies and Iambi attacking Hesiod and Homer and denouncing what they say about the gods.'

Why may the sources not accurately describe what Xenophanes wished to express?

The evidence is only fragmentary and has come down to us in quotes and discussions of sources much later than Xenophanes' own lifetime

What does Xenophanes say about gods and horses?

'But mortals seem to have begotten Gods to have their own garb and voice and form. Now if horses or oxen or lions had hands or power to paint and make the works of art that men make, then would horses give their gods horse-like forms… even each after its own kind'

What may Xenophanes actually have been doing instead of criticising Greek religion?

It is certainly possible that he modernised the Archaic 'theologies' and divine concepts of Homer and Hesiod rather than criticising Greek religion, the gods and polytheism wholesale

What does Xenophanes say about one 'cosmic god'?

He suggests one god who is 'greatest among gods and men, like unto mortals neither in body nor in mind'

What is Xenophanes one 'cosmic god' like?

His 'one greatest god' is single and eternal. He is not in any way resembling humans and is able to effect anything by mind alone. This idea of one god is new to Greek thought

What do some scholars call Xenophanes' world view?

Henotheistic

What is henotheism?

A religious system in which there exists one almighty god but the existence of other divine beings is acknowledged

What is most important about Xenophanes' view on the gods?

His systematic articulation of the concept of the one cosmic god, a phenomenon that became a tradition and was followed later by the Stoics from the late 4th century BC onwards

Who were the Stoics?

Followers of a philosophical school founded in the late 4th century which advocated belief in one cosmic god

How did Xenophanes influence the historian Herodotus?

'As to the customs of the Persians, I know them to be these. It is not their custom to make and set up statues and temples and altars, but those who do such things they think foolish, because, I suppose, they have never believed the gods to be like men, as the Greeks do; but they call the whole circuit of heaven Zeus, and to him they sacrifice on the highest peaks of the mountains. From the beginning, these are the only gods to whom they have ever sacrificed; they learned later to sacrifice to the "heavenly" Aphrodite from the Assyrians and Arabians.'

What does scholar Eisenstadt say about Xenophanes?

'For Xenophanes, the subjectivity of anthropomorphic religion does not affect its social value in human life… he approved of the worship of the Olympian gods'

When was Socrates active?

469-399 BC (Athens)

What was Socrates charged and tried by the Athenian state for?

Impiety

Why did the ancient Greeks prosecute impiety?

It was to act in the public interest of Athens as Athenian law forbade impiety

What were the specific charges against Socrates?

He did not believe in the right deities (civic deities of Athens) and he introduced new deities, and he corrupted the youth. He was accused of 'infecting' (socracising) the youth with these thoughts

What does Plato make clear in his defence of Socrates ('Apology')?

That Socrates was not an atheist at all but that he was rather engaged in theological thinking

What was a difference between Xenophanes and Socrates?

Unlike Xenophanes, who wandered around the Greek world spreading his wisdom, Socrates was a local man, who was born in Athens and lived there most of his life

Who can we reconstruct Socrates' philosophy from?

Plato and Xenophon (both pupils of Socrates) and Aristophanes the comedian - all three knew Socrates in person but wrote very different things about him

Who does Aristophanes liken Socrates in his 'Clouds'?

The sophists

Who were the sophists?

Teachers and philosophers who charged for their services, and many of whom specialised in rhetorical argument

What was a difference between Socrates and the sophists?

Socrates refused to receive money for his teaching

What is the Socratic method?

The method of question-and-answer cross-examination as practiced by Socrates in public and at private symposia

Why is believing in the gods in line with Socrates' philosophical thinking?

Socrates believed the gods help those who are virtuous, so rational self-examination is a pious act, leading to the acknowledgement of the power and wisdom of the divine

What does Plato show about Socrates' belief in the gods?

That Socrates was simply assuming the existence of the gods but he never felt the need to prove their existence and never needed to specify his ideas of the divine

Did Socrates disagree with the Homeric/Hesiodic idea of the Olympian gods?

We don't know as he never fully acknowledges or denies their existence

How does Plato depict Socrates as pious?

He obeys 'the god' (Apollo) at the oracle at Delphi who said about Socrates that the fact he acknowledged he know 'nothing' made him the wisest among men and ordered him to practice philosophy

What is a daimonion?

A divine sign that prevents Socrates from doing wrong things

How were Socrates' actions influenced by divine intervention?

He refers to a 'daimonion' - instead of following reason, Socrates followed his diamonion. He said: '…a sort of voice comes, which, whenever it does come, always holds me back from what I'm about to do but never urges me forward'

What else affirms Socrates' belief in the gods?

He refers to the 'gods of whom we have been speaking' meaning the Athenian civic deities such as Zeus and Athena, and swears oaths by these gods

What is a difference between how Socrates portrayed the gods compared to Homer/Hesiod?

Socrates gave the gods much more moral high ground

What does Socrates say about the gods?

'From perfectly good gods we have nothing to fear'; on the contrary, they may reward and aid us in response to our development of justice in our souls since they are 'perfectly knowledgeable'

What does scholar Herrmann say about Socrates?

'Socrates' questioning of common concepts portrayed in Plato's dialogues thus forms part of a wider trend which had called traditional beliefs and traditional belief into question'

Who was in the political circle Socrates moved in?

Individuals who turned against democracy in Athens, such as Critias, one of the thirty tyrants, and Alcibiades

What was Alcibiades due to be tried for?

He was due to be tried for religious charges in 414 that were interpreted equally as anti-democratic sentiments, not unlike Socrates, but he managed to flee before he had to stand trial

Who else were critical of the traditional views of the gods in Socrates' lifetime?

Comedians such as Aristophanes (eg in 'Frogs') and historians such as Thucydides - they mocked them in their plays and criticised their behaviour in historical accounts (particularly clear in Thucydides' account of the Plague)

What does scholar Emlyn-Jones say about Socrates?

'Xenophon… Emphasises Socrates' religious conformity; we are told that he constantly offered sacrifices at home and at the altars of the state gods'

Why may the Greek population of the Classical and Hellenistic periods not have been affected by the new philosophical schools?

One can assume that only the well-educated few were able to read and understand such writings. The Olympian gods were honoured for almost an entire millennium after the Presocratics, so the philosophers' influence on the masses can therefore only have been marginal.