(Plato's Republic, Aristotle's Politics) Ancient Responses to the Issues Surrounding Liberty

what is the background of plato’s republic?

socrates is going to a religious ritual to watch but he is stopped by friends and get into a philosophical discussion with glaucon, polymachus, cephalus, and thrasymachus as to “what is justice?”

what is glaucon’s position on the issue of justice?

the discussion needs to be based in his society (high society, nobility)

what are glaucons demands of socrates?

1. persuade him its better to be just than unjust

2. persuade him without using external consequences of being unjust

3. persuade him based on the effect justice has on the human soul

what is the ring of gyges story?

basically there is this ring that when worn makes someone invisible, glaucon questions whether a man could be so just that he would be able to resist committing various crimes if he had access to the ring, since he would not be caught

what is the city of need/pigs?

a small city that barters, lack of luxuries, involves everyone doing what they are best suited to do

glaucon calls it the city of pigs since everyone lives so beneath what he is used to

what is the feverish city?

a large city full of luxuries, very developed and industrialized with three social classes

glaucon accepts, plato thinks it is too flashy and overcomplicated

why does socrates abandon the effort to discuss the city of need?

he knows glaucon will not accept it because glaucon does not believe such a city is realistic

what are the four virtues which socrates is trying to find in the perfect state?

1. wisdom

2. courage

3. moderation/soberness

4. justice

how is wisdom defined and where is it found?

knowledge and human wisdom, found in the philosopher kings

how is courage defined and where is it found?

bravery but also conserving and following laws, found in the soldiers

how is moderation/soberness defined and where is it found?

the best of you rules the worst of you (mind over body, reason over passion), found across all classes

how is justice defined and where is it found?

doing what you are best suited to do so that the state functions properly, found across all three classes

what are the three classes in the ideal state?

1. philospher kings- make all the laws

2. soldiers

3. artisans

how are families set up in plato’s ideal state?

• all women belong to all men, no monogamy

• all marriages are arranged by the state to create the best children (eugenics)

• all children are reared by the state so no one knows their parents and vice versa to create the state as one big family

according to plato, what are some common and erroneous definitions of justice?

1. traditionalist, cephalus- giving people what is due to them, “socrates” (plato) says no because people and circumstances change, what is fair changes

2. loyalist, polymachus- doing good to one’s friends and harm to one’s enemies, plato says no because how do we know who is a friend and who is an enemy, and should people blindly follow another person

3. realist, thrasymachus- the interest is the stronger and defined by those in power, plato says no because is the strong’s interest always clear, can they make mistakes or are they always objectively correct?

what is platos conception of the ideal state?

has four virtues (wisdom, courage, moderation, justice) and three classes (philospher kings, soldiers, artisans) where phil and soldiers have political power but no property and artisans have private property, families are chosen and reared by the state and all education is public

what are platos problems with democracy?

he believes it is not a real constitution but a combination of a bunch of constitutions, there is too much equality and liberty, and a democracy has no virtue or self control or restraint

how does plato’s ideal state fix his problems with democracy?

those who should be in charge are (those with wisdom, the philosophers), everyone is where they re best suited, so people are not equal per say, but their state is good so they are good (happy)

what is the polis?

an association formed for a specific purpose, the natural association, a formation of villages

why are polis’ natural?

it is the end result of several families and villages, needed for self preservation

what are the types of rule?

1. statesman- ruling and being ruled in turn

2. king- absolute authority

3. master- over a slave

4. husband

what does aristotle mean by “man is by nature a political animal”?

people naturally come together for the common good, forming political societies (the polis)

what is the difference between natural and legal slavery?

natural slavery is just, some people are meant to be ruled and some are meant to be rulers while legal slavery is unjust because the slaves are forced to be slaves, like POWs

what are aristotle’s criticisms of plato?

1. property should be private but the use should be communal

2. state should be unified for education, not through force

3. forcing the state to be one big family would dilute feelings for each other, not strengthen them

what are the qualities of a good citizen?

know how to rule and be ruled

is a good citizen always a good person as well?

no!

what are the types of constitution?

good- kingship, aristocracy, polity

bad- tyranny, oligarchy, democracy

what are aritstotles best and worst constitutions?

polity is best, tyranny is worst

what are some possible claims to political power?

1. wealth

2. nobility

3. virtue

according to aristotle, should we give political power to the masses?

no because they develope mob mentality and act as a group unit instead of as individual

what is the best life for a human being according to aristotle?

1. physical needs are met

2. intellectual and moral qualities are present

3. external comforts are wanted and can be gotten

it is active

what is the best constitution for most circumstances according to aristotle?

polity

what is aristotle’s ideal/perfect constitution?

a polity

• not too highly populated (keeps crime down, can weed out the philosophers, keeps illegal immigration down, enough to rule)

• good land quality

• by water

• naval force