Philosophy Argument #2

thrasymachus’ definition of justice

advantage of the stronger

quote about advantage of the stronger

“A person of great power outdoes everyone else”

explain quote about advantage of the stronger

Whoever has strength(power) can use that strength to do whatever they want

what does Thrasymachus say about rulers?

they make laws to their own advantage in every type of society (democracy, tyranny, aristocracy)

thrasymachus quote about rulers

“And they declare what they have made - what is to their own advantage - to be just for their subjects, and they punish anyone who goes against this as lawless and unjust”

why does socrates disagree with Thrasymachus?

Socrates disagrees with Thrasymachus because he believes that rulers should rule for the people, not for the power

socrates quote about rulers

“They approach ruling not as something good or something to be enjoyed, but as something necessary, since it can’t be entrusted to anyone better than - or even as good as - themselves”

what happens with rulers in socrates’ perfect city?

the citizens fight in order not to rule; good rulers do not want to rule at all

socrates’ definition of justice

a just person lives well and an unjust person lives badly

socrates’ justice quote

“Justice is a soul’s virtue and injustice its vice”

explain socrates’ justice quote

when you live well, you are living according to the virtue of the soul, and when your soul is in order, you automatically do what is right

Cephalus

seen as very old, wise, and rich

Cephalus’ money

was inherited, but he does not talk about it as others who have inherited money do

what does Cephalus say about being old and rich?

having money has nothing to do with being content with one’s life

cephalus quote about being old and rich

“A good person wouldn’t easily bear old age if he were poor, but a bad one wouldn’t be at peace with himself even if he were wealthy”

cephalus’ definition of justice

always speaking the truth and paying your debts

how does socrates refute cephalus’ definition of justice?

 by using an example of returning tools you had borrowed from a friend when they were acting normal to the same friend when they were acting out of their mind

• This would be unjust, therefore his definition of justice is invalid

advantage of the stronger quote - wealth

“Justice is really the good of another, the advantage of the stronger and the ruler, and harmful to the one who obeys and serves”

link advantage of the stronger to wealth

• The people who are brave and powerful enough to serve themselves and act unethical if needed will generally be wealthier, happier, and smarter

• People who play by the rules, follow the laws, and act in just ways will generally be weak, silly, and naive

what does socrates believe about wealth?

wealth and money are not as important as education

Socrates’ perfect city - wealth

classes are based on education levels, not wealth

socrates quote about wealth

“Both wealth and poverty. The former makes for luxury, idleness, and revolution; the latter for slavishness, bad work, and revolution as well”

explain socrates quote about wealth

He claims that both wealth and poverty are bad for the city, and a good education will keep the city strong

socrates - allegory of the cave

• Uses this to show the effects of education on the soul

  • Education is freeing, but it is not easy

  • It requires you to turn away from opinions (illusions) and towards knowledge (truths)

• Prisoners were trapped in the cave, only able to see shadows of people and animals

• One prisoner is forced to look into the fire and walk up into the real world – harsh adjustment

• Realizes how nice the real world is, even though it took some struggling to adjust

• Sees the sun - the form of “the good”

• If the same prisoner was forced back into the cave, he would struggle because his eyes had adapted to the sun

socrates’ beliefs on learning

He says that all people are capable of learning, but in order to learn, they must be willing to study to reach what he calls “the good”

what is “the good”?

the ultimate goal of education and the source of all reality and truth

socrates quote about “the good”

“It produces both light and its source in the visible realm, and that in the intelligible realm it controls and provides truth and understanding, so that anyone who is to act sensibly in private or public must see it”

socrates quote about education

“Education takes for granted that sight is there but that it isn’t turned the right way or looking where it ought to look, and it tries to redirect it appropriately”

explain socrates quote about education

education turns the soul into the right direction to act in just ways by changing its desires

education levels in socrates’ perfect city

• Highest class = philosopher rulers; also the most educated

  • They have been able to contemplate “the good”

• followed by guardians, then producers