Human Rights Watch Giorgio Gogia Discussion

Introduction

• Speaker has been with Human Rights Watch for over 22 years.

• Worked at International Crisis Group on conflicts before returning to Human Rights Watch in 2006.

• Worked in Armenia, Azerbaijan, Georgia, Central Asia, and Ukraine.

• Human Rights Watch investigates, exposes, and advocates for human rights.

• The speaker will share three stories from their work to provide insight into Human Rights Watch's methodology.

• Happy to discuss trauma-informed interviews and the impact of the work on researchers.

Russia-Georgia Conflict (2008)

• During the conflict, the speaker felt the limitations of Human Rights Watch's mandate.

• Human Rights Watch doesn't take sides in wars or call for ceasefires; it assesses how sides observe the laws of war (Geneva Conventions).

• Key principles of international humanitarian law:

  • Differentiation between civilians and non-civilians.

  • Use of proportional force.

• Human Rights Watch can investigate how people are treated under occupation but cannot condemn the occupation itself.

• The speaker felt conflicted because they wanted to call for Russia to stop the invasion but couldn't due to the mandate.

• This was the only time in 22 years the speaker considered quitting Human Rights Watch.

Neutrality and Impartiality

• Human Rights Watch aims to be impartial to maintain credibility.

• Many groups condemn actions, but Human Rights Watch's mandate is to impartially document violations.

• Impartiality allows access to conflict sites and ensures the security of staff.

• Documenting violations by all sides doesn't mean condemning the fact of aggression itself.

• The speaker doesn't want to work solely on conflicts because their "justice compass" feels muddled.

• Example: A civilian setting up a checkpoint to protect their family during an invasion becomes a legitimate military target according to international humanitarian law.

• Human Rights Watch would investigate violations by both sides.

• In general human rights work (LGBT, disability, etc.), the speaker always knows they are on the right side of the equation.

• The speaker was able to investigate the use of torture, ill-treatment, disappearances, disproportionate force, and indiscriminate weapons after Russia turned back and occupied part of Georgia.

• Human Rights Watch was the first group to report on both sides of the conflict.

Impact of Findings

• Human Rights Watch cannot stop conflicts; its job is to document how laws of war are observed.

• Laws of war may be imperfect or outdated, but they are the current rules.

• The goal is to ensure accountability and protect civilians.

• Rarely, Human Rights Watch has called for specific arms embargoes.

• The aim is not to stop the war but to ensure the sides protect civilians, avoid indiscriminate weapons, and treat prisoners of war humanely.

Intrinsic Biases

• It is hard to be completely unbiased.

• How Human Rights Watch selects what to document first may indicate a bias.

• Egregious violations by one side do not excuse violations by the other side.

• All sides are bound by the same rules.

Cluster Munitions and International Law

• Investigating the use of weapons is crucial to determine if sides distinguish between civilian and military targets.

• Indiscriminate weapons, like dumb bombs, target a quadrant and can hit anything within it.

• The anticipated military gain should be more than the possible civilian casualties.

• The speaker investigated the use of cluster munitions in a Georgian village.

• Cluster munitions dispense many smaller bomblets, some of which don't explode on impact and can be triggered later.

• The speaker almost stepped on an unexploded cluster munition being pecked at by a chicken.

• In 2008, there was no ban on cluster munitions; Human Rights Watch aimed to change international law.

• The UN adopted the Cluster Munition Ban Treaty in 2018.

• Human Rights Watch tries to push for legal changes alongside documenting rights violations.

Explosive Weapons in Populated Areas (EWIPA)

• Explosive weapons used in populated areas have a high likelihood of civilian casualties.

• Human Rights Watch documents the use of EWIPA and advocates for a ban.

Rome Statute vs. Geneva Conventions

• Rome Statute: Governs the International Criminal Court (ICC), which investigates crimes against humanity and war crimes; requires membership.

• Geneva Conventions: Laws of war that apply to everyone, including state and non-state actors; customary international law.

• Human Rights Watch investigates violations of the Geneva Conventions, not crimes falling under the Rome Statute.

• Human Rights Watch is not a prosecutor and does not create legal cases, but it investigates and publishes findings.

Collaboration with ICC

• The ICC uses Human Rights Watch's public findings.

• Rarely, Human Rights Watch members testify in international courts.

Recalling Reports

• Human Rights Watch has never recalled a full report but has made corrections.

• Mistakes are corrected on the website.

• Rigorous research and fact-checking are crucial to credibility.

Report Timelines

• Report timelines depend on the situation and urgency.

• Reactionary Mode: Publishing press releases quickly to prevent further violations.

• In-Depth Investigations: Can take months or years (e.g., the Mariupol project).

• Timelines depend on the goal and the most visible way to react.

Collaboration with Local Groups

• Working with local groups can be challenging due to biases.

• Human Rights Watch must explain its mandate and maintain impartiality.

• The speaker experienced personal attacks and smears due to the organization's neutral stance.

• Verification of videos and information is essential to avoid mistakes.

Relationships with Contacts on the Ground

• Always work with primary sources.

• Need 3 independent sources to verify a fact.

• Primary sources can be victims, lawyers, family members, or documents.

• Often work through local partners or use the snowball method to find contacts.

• Must make efforts to identify and cannot rely solely on secondary sources.

Palliative Care in Armenia

• This was the most difficult research the speaker has done in 22 years.

• 8,000 people die from cancer in Armenia each year.

• 80-90% of cancer patients develop moderate to severe pain at the end of their lives.

• Pain can be mitigated with opioid pain medication, but these are often controlled substances and difficult to obtain.

• The speaker had to interview people who were dying and often in pain.

• Many people did not know their diagnosis due to the "conspiracy of silence."

• Had to tread carefully to get the story without causing harm.

The Kafkaesque Process:

• Diagnosis required in only one place in the country.

• Must exhaust all non-opioid medications first.

• Opioids available only in ampoules of morphine.

• One- or two-day doses at a time.

• Prescription required three signatures and two stamps, filled in one drugstore in Yerevan.

• Must repeat the process every other day.

• Must keep the ampoules, bring them back, ensuring the number has not been deleted using alcohol.

• If all imported opioids went to cancer patients, it would only be enough for 3% of them.

• Human Rights Watch had to document the violations of the right to health and freedom from torture.

• Police controlled every aspect of the process.

Trauma-Informed Interviews

• The difficult part was the trauma-informed interviews because people were dying in pain.

• The speaker interviewed a 50-year-old man with incurable cancer who was not getting medication.

• The following morning, the speaker woke up with back pain, experiencing a sympathy pain.

• The speaker had not taken time to process how the work was affecting them.

• Had to take a break, pause, understand, realize, and seek help.

Impact

• The research exposed the issues and changed the law.

• Opioids in tablet form were introduced.

• Regulations were changed and longer doses could be given.

• Human Rights Watch worked with doctors and the police.

• Had a significant impact.

Interactions with Partners

• Traditional partners in Armenia working on civil rights issues did not understand the importance of pain medication research.

• The speaker had to educate partners on the importance of the issue.

• There is an opportunity cost of doing one work and not doing another.

Interview Techniques

• Seven sessions of training are about interviews, their structure, and trauma-informed approaches.

• Core researcher skill is to minimize harm and do interviews ethically without being extractive.

• Always have to keep in mind doing the work ethically.

• Minimize the harm or ideally not do any harm, obviously, but also do it ethically correct way without seeming extractive or being extractive, not just seeming because this is like challenges no kind of Like, there's no kind of one way of doing it, but its there's many different long ways of doing it, but but it's, you know, you you have to keep in mind always kind of to do this work in an ethical way.

Informed Consent

• Informed consent is not a checkbox exercise; it is taken extremely seriously.

• Informed consent has three elements: disclosure, internist and comprehension

• When talking to someone, be clear about the goal of the conversation, how the information will be used, and expectations from all sides.

• Secure proper informed consent and decolonial research.

• It was not the speaker's place to disclose anyone's diagnosis.

• Focused on understanding pain and its impact on life and daily routine.

• Asked about help received and the process of obtaining medication.

• There were cases when the speaker refused to do the interview.

• Would not interview someone if they could not leave them in a safe space or provide referrals.

• Always check referrals to ensure availability and safety.

• Will avoid doing interviews altogether because not there for your own curiosity.

Follow up questions

• Black market opiates in Armenia: Primarily an equality issue, with rich people able to afford/access treatment abroad.

• General notes on the process of interviewing someone who has committed a crime

Tech

• Use technology Digital investigations lab: works with second ONTAC. Some of it works ONTAC Includes, win for remote research, for kind of data analysis, for technology for AI, data analysis. Has policies on how if AI is used in research, how it's used; reviewer. For example, they are algorithms.

• We have campaign on the government autonomous weapons has campaign and fighting against it partially. Also, some satellite images.

Giorgi has been with Human Rights Watch for over 22 years and previously worked at the International Crisis Group on conflicts before returning to Human Rights Watch in 2006, focusing on Armenia, Azerbaijan, Georgia, Central Asia, and Ukraine. Human Rights Watch investigates, exposes, and advocates for human rights, and Giorgi will share three stories from their work to provide insight into their methodology, also open to discussing trauma-informed interviews and the impact of the work on researchers.

During the Russia-Georgia conflict in 2008, Giorgi felt the limitations of Human Rights Watch's mandate, which doesn't allow taking sides in wars or calling for ceasefires but assesses how sides observe the laws of war (Geneva Conventions), emphasizing differentiation between civilians and non-civilians and the use of proportional force. Giorgi felt conflicted because they wanted to call for Russia to stop the invasion but couldn't due to the mandate, marking it as the only time in 22 years they considered quitting Human Rights Watch.

Human Rights Watch aims to be impartial to maintain credibility, impartially documenting violations to allow access to conflict sites and ensure the security of staff. Giorgi doesn't want to work solely on conflicts because their "justice compass" feels muddled. They were able to investigate the use of torture, ill-treatment, disappearances, disproportionate force, and indiscriminate weapons after Russia turned back and occupied part of Georgia, with Human Rights Watch being the first group to report on both sides of the conflict. Human Rights Watch cannot stop conflicts; its job is to document how laws of war are observed to ensure accountability and protect civilians, occasionally calling for specific arms embargoes to ensure the sides protect civilians, avoid indiscriminate weapons, and treat prisoners of war humanely.

It is hard to be completely unbiased, and how Human Rights Watch selects what to document first may indicate a bias. All sides are bound by the same rules, and investigating the use of weapons is crucial to determine if sides distinguish between civilian and military targets. Giorgi investigated the use of cluster munitions in a Georgian village, leading to Human Rights Watch aiming to change international law, resulting in the UN adopting the Cluster Munition Ban Treaty in 2018. Human Rights Watch also documents the use of Explosive Weapons in Populated Areas (EWIPA) and advocates for a ban.

The Rome Statute governs the International Criminal Court (ICC), which investigates crimes against humanity and war crimes and requires membership, while the Geneva Conventions are the laws of war that apply to everyone, with Human Rights Watch investigating violations of the Geneva Conventions, not crimes falling under the Rome Statute. The ICC uses Human Rights Watch's public findings, and rarely, Human Rights Watch members testify in international courts. Human Rights Watch has never recalled a full report but has made corrections on the website, emphasizing rigorous research and fact-checking. Report timelines depend on the situation and urgency, ranging from reactionary press releases to in-depth investigations taking months or years. Working with local groups can be challenging due to biases, requiring Human Rights Watch to explain its mandate and maintain impartiality, with verification of videos and information being essential to avoid mistakes. They always work with primary sources, needing 3 independent sources to verify a fact, often working through local partners or using the snowball method to find contacts, making efforts to identify and not rely solely on secondary sources.

Giorgi found the research on palliative care in Armenia to be the most difficult in 22 years. In Armenia, 8,000 people die from cancer each year, with 80-90% developing moderate to severe pain at the end of their lives. Pain can be mitigated with opioid pain medication, but these are often controlled substances and difficult to obtain. Giorgi had to interview people who were dying and often in pain, many of whom did not know their diagnosis due to the "conspiracy of silence." Diagnosis required in only one place in the country, with opioids available only in ampoules of morphine, requiring a prescription with three signatures and two stamps, filled in one drugstore in Yerevan, repeated every other day, with police controlling every aspect of the process. Human Rights Watch had to document the violations of the right to health and freedom from torture.

The difficult part was the trauma-informed interviews because people were dying in pain, leading Giorgi to experience sympathy pain and realize they had not taken time to process how the work was affecting them, thus needing to take a break and seek help. The research exposed the issues and changed the law, with opioids in tablet form being introduced, regulations being changed, and longer doses being given, resulting in a significant impact. Traditional partners in Armenia working on civil rights issues did not understand the importance of pain medication research, requiring Giorgi to educate partners on the importance of the issue. Seven sessions of training cover interviews, their structure, and trauma-informed approaches, with the core researcher skill being to minimize harm and do interviews ethically without being extractive, always keeping in mind to do the work in an ethical way.

Informed consent is not a checkbox exercise but is taken extremely seriously, with three elements: disclosure, internist, and comprehension. When talking to someone, be clear about the goal of the conversation, how the information will be used, and expectations from all sides, securing proper informed consent and decolonial research. Giorgi focused on understanding pain and its impact on life and daily routine, asking about help received and the process of obtaining medication, refusing to do the interview if they could not leave someone in a safe space or provide referrals, always checking referrals to ensure availability and safety. They use technology Digital investigations lab, working with second ONTAC, win for remote research, data analysis, technology for AI, data analysis, with policies on how if AI is used in research. They have a campaign on the government autonomous weapons and are fighting against it partially, also using some satellite images.