Oedipus complex+ Where It Was, There I Shall Become + Comments on Religious Experience 2-13
This paper by Hans Loewald re-examines Freud's concept of the Oedipus complex, arguing that its “passing” is not a complete disappearance but a “waning” process. Loewald connects the resolution of the Oedipus complex to the concepts of parricide, guilt, and atonement, suggesting that assuming adult responsibility involves symbolically “killing” the parents and subsequently atoning for this act through superego formation. He further explores how contemporary psychoanalytic interest in pre-Oedipal development has shifted focus away from the Oedipus complex, while also highlighting the complex's continued relevance. Finally, Loewald discusses the interplay between identification and object cathexis, particularly in the context of incestuous relationships and their implications for individual development.
The Ambiguity of "Waning": Loewald challenges the notion of the Oedipus complex's definitive "destruction," as Freud sometimes implied, using the German term "Untergang" (going under), noting that even Freud acknowledged the term may have been emotionally influenced by his feelings about Rank's theories. He argues instead for a "waning" – a process where the complex recedes but remains influential, resurfacing throughout life, requiring repeated mastery (repression, sublimation, internalization, etc.). This waning is not a disappearance but a change in form and intensity. "Seen in this light, there is no definitive destruction of the Oedipus complex, even when it is more than repressed; but we can speak of its waning and the various forms in which this occurs."
Shifting Psychoanalytic Focus: Loewald notes a decline in psychoanalytic interest in the Oedipus complex, replaced by an emphasis on preoedipal development, particularly the infant-mother dyad, separation-individuation, and issues of self and narcissism. This shift, he suggests, has led to a decrease in focus on the oedipal phase and its central role in psychosexual development.
Parricide as a Core Element of Development: Loewald introduces the concept of "parricide" (not just patricide) as a central component of the Oedipus complex and its resolution, defining parricide as "the murder of a parent or near relative; it includes the murder of one who represents or symbolizes a parent, mother or father, and even the serious betrayal of an entity or group standing for parental authority." This murder is not necessarily literal but rather a symbolic act of wresting authority and independence from parents, which also destroys them as libidinal objects. "In an important sense, by evolving our own autonomy, our own superego, and by engaging in nonincestuous object relations, we are killing our parents." This is a necessary step towards autonomy, but it inevitably generates guilt.
Guilt, Responsibility, and Atonement: The act of "parricide" in the service of autonomy inevitably leads to guilt. Loewald critiques Freud's equation of guilt with the need for punishment, arguing that punishment is merely an evasion of true guilt. Instead, he argues that guilt must be borne and mastered through "atonement," which he defines as the "reconstitution of child-parent relations on the internal scene of action (internalization)". Atonement involves a restructuring of object relations, where oedipal relationships are transformed into internal, intrapsychic structural relations. This process leads to the formation of the superego. "The organization of the superego, as internalization or narcissistic transformation of oedipal object relations, documents parricide and at the same time is its atonement and metamorphosis." He states that “guilt...is not a troublesome affect that we might hope to eliminate in some fashion, but one of the driving forces in the organization of the self.”
Responsibility and Self-Ownership: Loewald connects parricide to the development of self-responsibility. He argues that the assumption of responsibility for one’s own life is "tantamount to the murder of the parents," representing the rejection of parental authority and the taking of autonomy. He also ties responsibility to being "responsive to our own urgings," that is, knowing what one's needs are, acknowledging and allowing the existence of one’s desires, rather than repressing them.
Incest as the Flip Side of Parricide: Loewald explores incest not merely as the sexual urge, but also the exclusion and destruction of the third person in the oedipal triangle. He claims that incest is evil due to violating the sacred family bond, and it is a perversion since "the partners enact, live out oedipal relations." According to Loewald, incest is "a regressive, back-sliding repetition of an intermediate stage in the process of individuation." He further asserts that in incest, the libidinal object is directly emerging, without change of person, from the identificatory bond or unity. "The preoedipal stage of primary lack of subject/object differentiation is evolving into the object stage...an object stage that can be characterized as incestuous."
Preoedipal Bonds and Sacred Innocence: Loewald posits that "preoedipal identificatory bonds within the family, as direct derivatives of narcissistic unity, are felt to be sacred, to belong to a state of innocence," and that incestuous fantasies and acts violate that innocence. This is because the object of sexual desire in incest is also an entity with which there is a preobjectal, identificatory bond.
The Interplay of Identification and Object Cathexis: Loewald emphasizes that incestuous relations are an ambiguous intermediate entity between identification and object cathexis. He notes that the oedipal stage is itself “enmeshed in and pervaded by identificatory processes” and that a lack of resolution of the Oedipus complex means that primary identifications have not been sufficiently transformed into superego identifications.
The Enduring Influence of the Oedipus Complex: Despite a waning of interest, Loewald argues that the Oedipus complex remains crucial, especially when understood through the lens of parricide, guilt, and atonement. It is a recurring process throughout life, demanding renegotiation with each new developmental stage. Loewald posits that its significance increases when taking into account the ambiguity of incestuous object relations.
The Significance of the "Psychotic Core": Loewald also introduces a "psychotic core" related to earliest preoedipal experiences of unity and individuation. This core, he suggests, also wanes but does not disappear and influences our organization of reality, causing us to question "a strict distinction and separation between an internal, subjective, and an external, objective world." This line of thought brings about a re-examination of the concept of psychic reality itself.
Psychoanalysis and the Shifting Landscape of Normality: Loewald concludes by acknowledging that psychoanalysis has contributed to profound shifts in our understanding of normalcy, especially in regard to sexuality and family life. He argues that "archaic" currents are less repressed today, and so the very nature of what is considered archaic is being reconsidered.
Loewald's "The Waning of the Oedipus Complex" is a nuanced exploration of a cornerstone of psychoanalytic theory. It moves beyond a simplistic view of the complex's destruction, emphasizing its ongoing influence throughout life. The paper's emphasis on the concept of parricide and its connection to guilt, responsibility, and atonement offers a significant expansion of understanding, while also recognizing the shifting focus to preoedipal development in contemporary theory. He ultimately suggests that both the Oedipus complex and the preoedipal “psychotic core” remain as crucial elements of our psychology. The paper challenges conventional understandings of normalcy and the objective world, pushing the boundaries of psychoanalytic theory.
Odeuis complex we never grow out of influences relationship
Becoming functional adult= like psychologically killing parents?= become own person Parasitic relationship guilt influences this
Guilt surpassing parents superego
Ex son struggling to finish thesis after fathers death refusing help
Using external punishment = avoid true responsibility
Internalization= needed to heal this complex take parental relationships and build internal structure
Odeuis complex = struggle btw son and father competing for attention from mother
Primal urges for love and aggression influence
He argues instead for a "waning" – a process where the complex recedes but remains influential, resurfacing throughout life, requiring repeated mastery (repression, sublimation, internalization, etc.). This waning is not a disappearance but a change in form and intensity.
psychotic core" related to earliest preoedipal experiences of unity and individuation. This core, he suggests, also wanes but does not disappear and influences our organization of reality, causing us to question "a strict distinction and separation between an internal, subjective, and an external, objective world.
Freud Comments on Religious Experience
This lecture series explores the interplay between conscious and unconscious mental processes, particularly regarding religious experience. The author examines Freud's views on religion as illusion and contrasts them with the "oceanic feeling" described by Rolland, linking this feeling to the early infant-mother psychic unity. The lecture further investigates the experience of "eternity" as a timeless state contrasted with temporality, proposing that religious experiences represent a blend of primary and secondary mentation. The author suggests that psychoanalysis can offer a new understanding of religious experience by acknowledging the importance of both conscious and unconscious mental functions and their interaction, rather than dismissing religious experience as immature. Finally, the lecture connects this understanding to concepts of sublimation and the ongoing dialectic between the "id" and "ego."
Individuation and Differentiation:
The author posits that individuation involves a progressive differentiation and separation from an initial "primary matrix," exemplified by the infant-mother relationship. This process is facilitated by the development of "secondary process mentation," which is linked to objectification and separation.
The author emphasizes that the distinctions through which we organize our world are acquired and not inherent, starting with the experience of birth itself.
Sexual differentiation and awareness of a sexually differentiated world are further examples of givens that become integrated into our personal reality.
"We come to live in objectified reality by virtue, basically, of the development of secondary process mentation which is tied to processes and events of differentiation and separation."
Primary vs. Secondary Process Mentation:
The text distinguishes between "primary process" (unconscious, instinctual, unified, closer to the origins of mental life) and "secondary process" (conscious, rational, differentiated).
Secondary process mentation is presented as a developmental achievement, tied to differentiation, but if isolated from primary process, it can become "sterile and destructive of life."
"Secondary process mentation is an achievement of the highest order, but it must be seen as a continuous activity of the mind, not as a static state reached once and for all."
The author argues for a continuous dialectic between these two forms of mentation, suggesting that the richest human experience is achieved when they remain in communication and are responsive to each other.
Critique of Freud's View on Religion:
The text challenges Freud's view of religion as solely a manifestation of infantile needs for parental protection and a comforting illusion.
It notes Freud’s dismissal of the “oceanic feeling” proposed by Romain Rolland and his reduction of religion to a substitute for childhood dependency.
The text points out Freud's inability to explain mother goddesses in archaic religions as a weakness of his perspective.
"Freud's well-known view on religion is that it is an illusion, comforting to the child in us...an illusion to be given up as we are able to overcome our childish needs for all-powerful parents."
The "Oceanic Feeling" and the Roots of Religious Experience:
Drawing from Romain Rolland's concept, the author discusses the "oceanic feeling" as a sensation of limitlessness and unity with the universe, which is seen as a potential source of religious energy.
While Freud sought to derive this feeling from the infant-mother psychic matrix and the primary narcissistic unity, the text suggests that this feeling of connectedness has its own validity, existing alongside a more mature, sharply demarcated ego-feeling.
The author posits that these earlier ego-feelings coexist with later, more differentiated forms of experiencing, and that the fullness of human life requires the capacity to access and respond to both.
"The true. source of religious sentiments... consists in a peculiar feeling, which he [Rolland] himself is never without, which he finds confirmed by many others, and which he may suppose is present in millions of people. It is a feeling which he would like to call a sensation of "eternity," a feeling as of some- thing limitless, unbounded-as it were, "oceanic."
Time, Eternity, and the Nunc Stans:
The document contrasts the concepts of time and eternity, with eternity conceived not as limitless time but as the absence of time.
Experiences of eternity are connected to moments where time seems suspended, like mystic states, intense emotions, and profound absorption in beauty, and are tied to the primary process.
“In the experience of eternity, time is abolished.”
These moments are further linked to the concept of nunc stans (the abiding now), a state of timelessness and completeness, where all experience condenses into a single instant. This experience is seen as a powerful, formative aspect of existence.
"All of us know, I believe, poignant moments that have this timeless quality: unique and matchless, complete in themselves and somehow containing all there is in experience."
Memory, Repetition, and Timelessness:
The text explores the difference between remembering and reliving an event. When memories are recalled with emotional depth, the distinction between past and present blurs, leading to a re-experiencing rather than a mere recollection.
"In poignant remembering, in a remembering that moves us, the difference between recollecting and repeating diminishes."
These powerful memory experiences often take on a timeless quality, becoming archetypal and standing for all experience.
This concept ties back to the idea that the unconscious has no sense of time and that primary process mentation underlies these experiences.
Religious Experience as a Blend of Primary and Secondary Process:
The author argues that religious experiences often blend primary and secondary process mentation and that these blends are often more frequent in childhood.
They advocate for the use of poetic forms to express religious experience, as they draw language into the realm of the primary process.
Reconsidering Sublimation:
The text addresses the common psychoanalytic view of sublimation as a defense mechanism. The author acknowledges the validity of this view, but emphasizes that this does not fully capture the meaning of sublimation, which may also involve a deeper "appropriation" of instinctual drives.
The author contends that the forces employed in creative activity, like religious poetry and art, are the same as those at play in sexuality, and these forces can be channeled into higher-level mental activities.
It posits that sexuality, when not defensively isolated, can inform these activities, creating a continuous, mutual interplay between the instinctual, emotional and ideational sides of life.
Psychoanalysis and Religious Experience:
The author suggests that psychoanalysis, as a "depth psychology," is uniquely positioned to explore the complexities of religious experience by understanding the interplay between conscious and unconscious forms of mentation.
The author contends that the text makes strides toward overcoming Freud's avoidance of this subject and moves to establish it as a valid field of psychoanalytic inquiry.
"It is my belief that the distinction between conscious-more precisely between preconscious or conscient-and unconscious mentation, rightly understood, places psychoanalytic psychology in the position of shedding new light on important aspects of religious experience."
The author also touches on Jung's idea that Freud's unconscious could be interpreted as a "deus absconditus," or "God below," suggesting a repressed religious dimension to Freud's thought.
Transience and Eternity:
Citing Oppenheimer, the text emphasizes that human experience exists against the backdrop of transience, yet also partakes in "the light of eternity.” This suggests a tension that exists in everyday life and is worth considering.
This idea reinforces the argument that while the rational mind understands and operates in the world of transience, there is also a dimension of experience that exists outside time, connecting us to something larger.
"His acts, his thoughts, what he sees of the world around him...are part of history; but they are not only part of history; they are part of becoming and of process but not only that; they also partake of the world outside of time; they partake of the light of eternity."
Conclusion:
This text presents a compelling argument for a reevaluation of the relationship between psychoanalysis and religious experience, moving beyond Freud's reductionist view to a more integrated perspective that values both rational thought and unconscious processes. It suggests that religious experience, and the human experience of timelessness, is an authentic and significant part of human life rather than an immature regression or delusion. The author emphasizes the need for a continuous interplay between conscious and unconscious forms of mentation to achieve a richer and more complete understanding of ourselves and our place in the world. This is done through a close examination of the experience of time and eternity. It is clear, from this text, that the author considers this understanding a vital part of psychoanalytic work.
Key Themes and Arguments:
1. The "Unseen" as a Fundamental Aspect of Religious Experience
James emphasizes that religious individuals often feel a deep connection to an unseen reality, which they perceive as just as real (or even more real) than the material world.
This "unseen" can manifest as God, divine forces, spiritual truths, or an overarching cosmic order.
2. Emotional and Psychological Conviction
James argues that people do not necessarily arrive at religious beliefs through logical deduction but through intuitive feelings and personal experiences.
This conviction is often so strong that it overrides doubts or rational counterarguments.
3. Sudden vs. Gradual Religious Awareness
Some individuals report sudden moments of revelation where they feel an immediate connection to the divine.
Others experience a gradual awakening, where their belief in the unseen deepens over time.
4. The Practical Impact of the Unseen
James notes that religious experiences often have real psychological and moral consequences, shaping a person’s behavior, ethics, and overall outlook on life.
Even though the unseen is intangible, it exerts influence over human thought and action.
5. Religion and Mystical States
James hints at mystical experiences as moments when individuals feel directly in touch with the unseen, a theme he develops further in later chapters.
These experiences are often ineffable (beyond words) and provide individuals with a profound sense of certainty.
Conclusion:
Chapter Three establishes that religious experience is rooted in an individual's perception of an unseen reality, which is often deeply felt rather than logically proven. James argues that this sense of the unseen is a core aspect of religious consciousness, shaping how people live and find meaning in the world.
-Emerging from unity to create sense of self
-not In touch with primal senses = thinking becomes rigid
- using religious experiences to find deeper self not dismiss these
Art and logic = bridge together deeper understanding of the world
notes from lecture
eternity= oceanatic feeling
“it” primary(eternity) +secondary(get bills payed/ reflect on primary ) procrastinating function of thought+ ego “pragmatically”/ process
/
Freud doesn’t apply secondary processing to religion / thinks religion is primary
Where It Was, There I Shall Become
This text is an excerpt from Chapter 6 of a book exploring Freud's psychoanalytic theory, specifically focusing on the development of the ego and its relationship to love, identification, and the external world. Freud's concepts of mourning and melancholia are examined, tracing the formation of the ego through early childhood experiences and the crucial role of identification in shaping the individual's sense of self. The chapter investigates the interplay between the internal world of psychic structures and the external world, highlighting the process of individuation as a dialectic between these two realms. The text also explores the significance of accepting responsibility as a crucial aspect of achieving psychological maturity and integrating into the world. Finally, it briefly touches on the philosophical implications of psychoanalysis and its unique perspective on human development.
"Where It Was, There I Shall Become" is a phrase derived from Sigmund Freud’s psychoanalytic theory, specifically from his work in The Ego and the Id (1923). It encapsulates the fundamental goal of psychoanalysis: bringing unconscious material (the "It" or Es, referring to the id) into the realm of conscious awareness (the "I" or Ich, referring to the ego).
Key Themes and Meaning:
The Transformation of the Psyche:
Freud’s phrase suggests a developmental process in which unconscious drives and repressed desires (the "It" or id) are integrated into the conscious self (ego).
This process represents psychological growth and self-mastery, as the ego gains control over primitive, instinctual forces.
Psychoanalysis as a Path to Self-Understanding:
Freud believed that mental health depends on confronting and making sense of the unconscious.
Through analysis, individuals can recognize and integrate repressed thoughts, reducing neurotic suffering.
The Struggle Between Civilization and Instinct:
Freud’s phrase ties into his broader argument in Civilization and Its Discontents: civilization demands repression of instinctual drives, creating tension within the individual.
The transformation of "where It was" (the domain of instinct and unreason) into "where I shall become" (the domain of self-awareness and control) reflects the difficult balance between individual desires and societal expectations.
Implications for Human Development:
This idea suggests that true self-realization comes from engaging with, rather than suppressing, the unconscious.
It raises philosophical and existential questions: Can we ever fully control our instincts? Is self-awareness always liberating, or does it introduce new conflicts?
complexity of love/ absence of love shapes psyche
melancholy =deep sadness withdrawal after loss= create what is missing / stays with us
Ego sense of I develop from early experiences / relationship btw mother and infant
2:24 Frustration developed self infant frustrated it cannot communicate needs with mother + patience = create sense of need/seperation
Freud’s idea of identification = deeper than minicking / key to dev ego
internalize ways of relating to others/ infants love of mother= seeks to become mother blur lines
mother=blueprint for self
father= edepal stage = shift from mother to father = dev ego more
where it was i shall become= core of loves power= seek out what was loved+loss
always trying to fulfill love influences us
accept responsibility for what drives us = fully accepting love
love is not passive = active /more demanding
take responsibility= take ownership of what we love / how it affects outer world
avoid responsibility= see world differently/ project onto others/ shy away from lifes challenges
blissful merged with one who fulfills needs= doesnt last forever as infant interacts w/ outside world = moments of frustartion = disrubtion to oneness = infant realize mother is external seperate 8:28
hope for change id + love unconscious want for love